Tuesday, October 25, 2016

Who is the One Jehovah? (response)

In response to email from the owner of a site:

The questions are asked:

Who is the single person Lord God who directly appears to and covenants with God's people in the entire Bible? Who is the single person being called upon, prayed to, worshipped  and served by the people of God in the entire Bible from the Old Testament to the New Testament unto the heavens and unto the new creation in eternity?

An outline was sent to us which, we suppose, is designed  to allegedly give answers the above questions, as provided by Mario I. Quitoriano, evidently of "The Trinitarian All for Jesus Ekklesia Of the Lord God." The outline appears to be addressed to "oneness" believers, rather than those who believe in the Hebraic application to John 1:1, and other scriptures in which the words for "God" may be seen to apply to Jesus. We are of the latter (Hebraic) class, and while we believe in the Biblical oneness of Jesus and his God, we do not believe that Jesus is his God.
We first ask our readers to study the scriptures presented at:

Under "The Trinitarian Teaching of the Bible", we actually do not find any scriptures that present "the trinitarian teaching of the Bible", since in reality there is no "trinitarian teaching of the Bible." What we are provided with are scriptures where the imaginations of men are added with assumptions by which the reader is expected to filter the scriptures so that the reader may assume, add to, and read into those scriptures the extra-Biblical doctrine of men. Not one scripture is presented in which the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is presented as being more than one person, or three persons, although that thought is being read into a lot of scriptures.
In our discussion here, we will not be giving any detailed discussion on the scriptures presented, but we will provide links to where one may find more information concerning the scriptures.
The Plurality of Elohim
We are evidently being asked to believe with our imagination that the plural form ELOHIM denotes that God is three persons; the plurality of ELOHIM doesn't means "persons" -- it means "gods". Like several words in the Hebrew, the plural forms of EL are often used in a singular setting to denote superiority or the superlative. This is called the plural intensive. It means that a plural form is used in a singular sense, but that the meaning is intensified so as to denote either the superior or superlative.
We are presented with the following scriptures to allegedly support the erroneous idea that in some imagined way ELOHIM is supposed to mean the three alleged "persons" of the only true God; we present the scriptures with links to further discussion.
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 3:2211:6,7
Jesus is indeed depicted in the New Testament as the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of God's creatures (Colossians 1:15); Jesus is not depicted as the "only true God" who sent Jesus. (John 17:1,3) Yes, no human has ever seen the only true God (Yahweh / Jehovah) at any time, and Jesus, being fully obedient to the only true God, is figuratively in the bosom of the only true God; however, humans have seen Jesus in terrestrial, human glory, thus Jesus is not the only true God whom no man has seen (John 1:14,18; 1 Corinthians 15:40; Hebrews 2:9) -- the son of the only true God (Luke 1:32,35; John 10:36), Jesus, declared to men the words of Yahweh (Jehovah), the only true God. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Matthew 11:27,28; John 1:18; 3:34; 14:10; 17:1,3,4.
John 1:1 with is presented with trinitarian assumptions added. See:
and
Jesus is indeed the only begotten of the only true God. (John 1:14; 16:28; 17:1,3) Before becoming flesh, Jesus did indeed have the celestial glory alongside the only true God whom he was with, which glory he did not have while in the days of his flesh. -- John 1:1,2; 17:1,3,5; 1 Corinthians 15:40; Hebrews 5:7.
Having sacrificed once for all time his terrestrial glory (Hebrews 2:9; 10:10) as a human being, the only true God raised up Jesus' soul from the Bible hell (Acts 2:24,25,27,32; Psalm 16:8-10), and Jesus was made alive, not in the flesh, but in the spirit (1 Peter 3:18), and now again enjoys the celestial glory, having sit down at the right hand of the only true God, Yahweh (Jehovah). (Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:34; Ephesians 1:20-22;  Hebrews 12:2; 1 Peter 3:22; Revelation 3:21) None of this means that Jesus is Yahweh (Jehovah), at whose right hand Jesus now sits.
Yahweh willing, we will be adding more to this in response to the rest of the scriptures and points presented by Mr. Quitoriano in the study sent to us.
Coming (Yahweh willing):
Did Jesus Teach a Plurality of his God, making himself a person of his God?
The Everlasting Covenant & the Alleged Plurality of God
The One Yahweh Who spoke to Moses (and to Israel through Moses.)
Yahweh and the Three Men Who Appeared to Abraham
The Hebrew Word Echad
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php/topic,137.0.html
Jesus and Ehyeh
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?action=search2

Sunday, September 4, 2016

John 8:1-11 and the New World Translation

One, evidently mistaking the owner of this site as being with the JWs, demanded that I respond to the claim to the New World Translation and what Jesus wrote on the ground. Many sites have statements that appear to fault the NWT for "removing" parts of the Bible regarding John 7 and 8. Here are a few:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99LBdNmwOYE
http://avoidjw.org/2015/02/missing-verses/



My response:

I am not with the JWs, and rarely use the NWT, mostly due to the prejudice so many seem to have against it. At any rate, I consider it one of the more accurate translations, although I do agree that in some cases it appears to arbitraly word some verses in such a way so as to support their doctrine. Nevertheless, I don't know of any translation out there that does not do the same thing.

The site linked to mentions that John 8:1-11 has been removed. Of course, if those verses were not originally part of what John wrote, then in actuality, those translations that contain the verses actually join wth the adding of those verses to the Bible. I do notice that several Bible versions leave out those verses, put these verses in brackets, or otherwise note that the verse as probably being spurious; thus, this not just something involving the JWs NWT. The verses in question actually begin with John 7:53 through and including John 8:11. The NWT gives a footnote explaining that the Sinaitic, Vatican 1209, and evidently the Syriac Peshitta do not have these verses.

James Parkinson, in his "Corrected" Version, states:

|--97 Vss. 7:53-8:11 are not added by p66,75 B? LT copsa,pbo,ach2 sys,c geo. Twelve verses (about a woman taken in adultery and uncondemned by Jesus) are added here by 892 and a majority of lesser Gk. mss., ite vg. Vss. 8:3-11 alone are added by other lesser Gk. mss. after Lk 21:38, 24:53, Jo 7:36, or 21:25, sometimes marked as of doubtful authenticity. It is evident these verses were not written by the Apostle John or any other New Testament writer, whether their account is true or not.--|


A. T. Robertson, Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament, on John 7:53, states:

|--This [John 7:53] verse and through John 8:12 (the passage concerning the woman taken in adultery) is certainly not a genuine part of John's Gospel. The oldest and best MSS. (Aleph A B C L W) do not have it. It first appears in Codex Bezae. Some MSS. put it at the close of John's Gospel and some place it in Luke. It is probably a true story for it is like Jesus, but it does not belong to John's Gospel. The Canterbury Version on which we are commenting puts the passage in brackets. Westcott and Hort place it at the end of the Gospel. --|

Charlest John Elliott (Elliott's Commentary for English Readers), under John 7:53, states:

|--The section which follows (John 7:53 to John 8:11) is one of the most striking instances of an undoubted addition to the original text of the Gospel narratives. We shall find reason to believe that it belongs to the Apostolic age, and preserves to us the record of an incident in the life of our Lord, but that it has not come to us from the pen of St. John. (Comp. Excursus B: Some Variations in the Text of St. John’s Gospel.) While, therefore, it is printed in the text here, our text being a reprint of the Authorised version, without addition or alteration, the reader will observe that it is an insertion which breaks the order of the discourse, and in working out the line of thought will bear this in mind.--|

Adam Clarke states under John 7:53:

|--This verse and the first eleven verses of the following chapter are wanting in several MSS. Some of those which retain the paragraph mark it with obelisks, as a proof of spuriousness. Those which do retain it have it with such a variety of reading as is no where else found in the sacred writings. Professor Griesbach leaves the whole paragraph in the text with notes of doubtfulness. Most of the modern critics consider it as resting on no solid authority.--|

I could probably find more quotes from scholars, but I would like to point out that if the above quoted scholars are correct, then the NWT did not remove those verses, but they simply did not add those verses. This would mean that translations that contain those verses are based on adding those verses to the Bible.

I do not, however, believe that the translators of the NWT had any doctrinal bias for not including those verses.

-------
Addendum:

It is not for me to say that John did not write the verses being questioned; nor would I claim that John did write the verses. I do believe that more than likely John did write the verses in question, but probably not in the place where they are found in the Textus Receptus. I do not, at the present time, have my 1971 edition of the NWT with me, but it does usually add footnotes explaining differences in the manuscripts.

Tuesday, August 30, 2016

Regarding "No Other Name", "I am" in John 8:58, OT Testifies of Jesus, and more...

From comments in response to the study: Jesus is Not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

ResLight
There is not other name given among men whereby you must be saved.
Yes, the only true Supreme Being has not given any other name except that of His Son as the means by which we may be saved.
Jesus said, before Abraham was, I am.
Jesus’ declaration of his existence before Abraham existed does not mean that we need to imagine and assume that Jesus is Jehovah.
For Related Studies
New page:
http://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/ehjeh-and-i-am.html
Old page:
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?page_id=5085
Jesus said, search ye the scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life, but they are they that testify of me.
Yes, the only true God testified about Jesus through his prophets. — Deuteronomy 18:15,18Matthew 1:22,232:5,6,15,233:38:1712:17-21Acts 2:3126:22,23,27Romans 1:2Hebrews 1:11 Peter 1:10,11, and many more….
In Luke 24 Jesus opened the understanding of the two on the road to Emmas and his disciples later, all that is written in scriptures concerning himself. Revelation 22:20-21 The Lord Jesus Christ is the one we look for to come for us.
Yes, that is our Lord Jesus speaking in verse 20. Nevertheless, Jehovah, the God and Father of Jesus, comes to judge through — by means of — His son. Nothing in this means that one needs to imagine and assume that Jesus is Jehovah. — Psalm 96:1398:9Isaiah 40:1062:11Luke 1:32,35John 5:22,23Acts 10:4217:31;Romans 2:161 Corinthians 4:5Revelation 22:12.
Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.
All things were made by him and for him.
Not anything made that was made without him.
See:
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=933
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=524
Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.
“God” is Colossians 1 is not Jesus, and Jesus is distinguished from being “God”.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth. Enough said.
God made all the dominions, visible and invisible, in heaven and on earth, by means of his firstborn creature.

Regarding Image of God, All Power, Alpha and Omega, and Other Matters

The following provides some quotes from one who commented on "Is Jesus the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?".
The Son of man, Son of God, Lord and Savior is the the every Image of God,
In the expression, “image of God”, “God” does not refer to Jesus.
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?s=%22image+of+God%22
the most High Elohim,( His father),
Yes, Jesus is the Son of the Most High; Jesus is not the Most High, the only true Supreme Being, the source of all. — Genesis 14:22Psalm 7:1783:1892:1Luke 1:32John 13:1617:1,31 Corinthians 8:6.
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=750
in whom is vested all power and authority in heaven and on earth
All power and authority is given to Jesus, except that of being the source of all power and authority. — 1 Corinthians 15:27Ephesians 1:3,17-23.
Jesus is NOT the Supreme Being, the source of all. — 1 Corinthians 8:6.
and at his revelation all of creation in Heaven and earth and under the earth and in the sea shall bow to Him who is seated on the throne of Elohim and to the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world!
Yes, all will bow down to Jehovah (the only true Supreme Being — Isaiah 61:1John 17:1,31 Corinthians 8:6) who is on the throne and they will also bow down to Jehovah’s anointed/appointed King. Nothing in the entire book of Revelation gives us any reason to imagine and assume that Jesus is the Supreme Being, the source of all.
Yes, the Lord Jesus is the Alpha and Omega The Lord God Almighty !
In the book of Revelation, only the God and Father of Jesus is the Lord Jehovah, He who is, was and is to come, who is sitting on the throne. Jesus is no where in Bible identified as being then Lord Jehovah.
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?page_id=5259
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was within God and the Word is God,
I could not verify that the Greek word often transliterated as “pros” (Strong’s #4313) ever means located “within” somebody of something; it most common use is that of being as approaching “to”, or as being alongside, “with”, someone or something. The KJV renders this preposition as “within” in Mark 14:4, but it is evident that it is not speaking of location “within” someone or some thing, but rather of location with respects to each other as spoken of (in other words, “among”). I have no reason to think that John meant for “pros” to mean “within” in John 1:1, but rather as being “with”, alongside of, the only true God as Jesus spoke of in John 17:1,3,5.
Since Jesus spoke of his having been with the only true God before then world of mankind had been made, the default conclusion should be that the Greek word often transliterated as THEOS as applied to “the Word” in John 1:1 does not mean the Supreme Being, then source of all, but that is being used with the general Hebraic meaning of “might, strength.” Jesus “was” indeed “mighty” before he became flesh, but he “was” not the Supreme Being.
The Light of the world shines in the darkness and the darkness comprehended not,
The Word was actively the “light of the world” only while he was in the world. He was not that light until after he became flesh. After sacrificing his flesh, and ascending to his God and Father, he is not actively that light, but that light still shines in the work as presented in the Bible, as well by means of the righteous works that are being done by the new creatures in Christ.
but as many who receive Him He gives them the power (Holy Spirit) to become the sons of God
No serious disagreement here.
The mystery of the Father , Son and Holy Spirit will be revealed from heaven on earth on the day of the Lord!
The mystery of the only true God, His Son, and the saints, will be revealed by means God’s Holy Spirit in the last day.
http://reslight.net/?p=585
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=152
The saints will rejoice with reverent fear and sing songs to the Lord and the Love of God will cast out that fear from them, but the ungodly shall be consumed with terror and shame( weeping and gnashing of teeth! Time is short
Weeping and gnashing teeth is spoken of in the Bible in connection with the Jews who rejected Jesus as well as others. At the same time, they are to be reserved for the blessings of the judgment day in the last day.
For some studies related to weeping and gnashing of teeth:
http://life-rlbible.com/?s=gnash
The blessing of all the families of the earth without hindrance from Satan will bring joy to peoples of all nations; those who obey the Good News in that day will live forever on the earth; those who, once having been enlightened, prove themselves to still be disobedient will suffer eternal destruction.

Monday, August 22, 2016

Do We Have A Guardian Angel?

Psalms 91:11 -  For he will give his angels charge over thee, To keep thee in all thy ways. 

All that most people know about "angels" is what they have seen in TV series or movies. Most often, such fictional depiction of angels do not at all represent what the Bible actually says about angels. We are not going to present a study of angels as such, but rather we will be briefly examining the thought related to the expression, guardian angels. According to some, "everyone has a guardian angel." This would seem to imply that everyone, whether they are servants of God or not, has been given one angel who is supposed to guard over a person. Others believe that each regenerated child of God is assigned a single angel who is supposed to guard over them.

It is certainly true in the angels of Jehovah have served the purpose of what could be called "guards" as related to His people at various times. -- Exodus 23:20-23; Psalm 34:7; Daniel 6:22

The Bible does not expressly state that each consecrated Christian is assigned a "guardian angel." The expression "guardian angel" is not actually in the Bible, but the scriptures do show that angels are sent to God's people, if it is God's will, for protection, guidance, etc. -- Genesis 21:17-20; 1 Kings 19:5-7; Daniel 6:20-23; 2 Kings 6:13-17; Matthew 1:20,21; Luke 1:11-20; Acts 7:52-53; 8:26; Hebrews 1:14.

The Bible does declare: "See that you don't despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 18:10) However, the Greek in this verse does not warrant the conclusion that each and every Christian has a specific angel assigned to him/her; the application is collective.

While we are sure that if God so decided, he could send one or more His angels to protect some who are not His people, Psalm 91 is not about the world at large, but pertains to those who dwell in the secret place of the Most High. (Psalm 91:1) It appears to be refer to those specially dedicated to diligently seeking to know God. This does not fit the world at large, thus it is not saying that everyone in the world has a "guardian angel" who will guard over and protect him.

At the same time, we cannot say that God does not assign a specific angel to each Christian; we can say that if this is true, the Bible does not specifically state such.

We do have assurances that God will make all things work for our ultimate good, and Jehovah will never leave or forsake us. (Deuteronomy 31:6,8; Romans 8:28-30; Hebrews 13:5-6) We have no doubt that God and His Son do make use of the holy angels to fulfill these promises toward us. Jesus, by stating, "their angels",(Matthew 18:10) is surely saying that they are our messengers before God, thus because these angels are always able to see God's face, they are there for us before God, able to receive God's command to help us as needed.


Friday, March 18, 2016

Did God Die?

One has given us the material that is presented in gotquestions.org related to some statements we made concerning the ransom sacrifice of the man, Christ Jesus. The person presented to me a copy and paste of what is presented at
http://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-die.html

Since our response has become rather long, we are presenting our responses here:

The question is asked: Did God die when Jesus died on the cross?

The correct answer is that no, Jesus, not being "God" (Supreme Being), did not die on the cross. Such would not have provided the redemption price that was needed. That which was required to pay the price of the condemnation in Adam was that of a sinless human being, nothing more, nothing less.
See my study:
The Price of Redemption -- God or Man?
https://ransomforall.blogspot.com/2017/01/god-or-man.html

****Below needs editing; links may not work.

It is claimed that the answer depends on how one understands the meaning of the word "die".

The word "die" in the Bible most often signifies the opposite of what is written in Genesis 2:7, the cessation of being alive, thus no longer sentient. This is confirmed in Genesis 3:19; Job 14:10-15; 33:4; 34:14,15; Psalms 6:5; 104:29,30; 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5,10; 12:7; Isaiah 38:18; James 2:26.

For more related to this, see our study:
The Spirit That Returns to God
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=12

In the Bible, to die most often means that one becomes no longer a living soul, but a dead soul, a soul that no longer has the spirit, the power or energy, from God that makes a person alive, and thus without that power the soul no longer has sentiency. -- Ezekiel 18:4,20; See Leviticus 21:11; Numbers 6:6; 9:7 (most translations do not render the Hebrew word for "soul" as "soul" in these verses, but instead substitute other words, thus hiding the fact that the Bible is speaking of souls.)

The Bible speaks of dead souls and that the soul dies (Numbers 6:6; 9:13; Mark 14:34; and many other scriptures.); the soul can be cut off (Exodus 31:14; Leviticus 7:21; 19:8; 22:3; Acts 3:23; etc.); the soul can be destroyed (Leviticus 23:30; Matthew 10:28); but not once does the  Bible actually say the soul is immortal or that it continues to have sentiency while it is dead, although Jesus may have made use of, while not condoning, the Hellenistic Jewish adaptation of that philosophy. If our hope is built on this philosophy, then Jesus died for nothing.

For more related to this, see my studies:
A Living Soul
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=390
Neshamah
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=16

God sentenced Adam to return to what he had been before his birth. (Genesis 3:19; Ecclesiastes 12:7) This is the condemnation that was upon Adam, and thus to pay the wages of sin, Jesus had to undergo that same condemnation of death. That condemnation upon Adam would have been eternal had Jesus not sacrificed himself to pay the wages upon Adam and all his offspring. -- Romans 5:12-19; 6:23; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 2:5,6.

Note that Ecclesiastes 12:7 does not say that only the spirit of the good, or the justified, return to God. It simply describes what happens when any man, whether he has been good or bad, justified or unjustified, when they die. As Solomon wrote wrote of man under this present sun of vanity and crookedness (Ecclesiastes 1:13-15): "It is the same for all. There is one fate for the righteous [one made straight -- justified -- through faith] and for the wicked; for the good, for the clean and for the unclean; for the man who offers a sacrifice and for the one who does not sacrifice. As the good man is, so is the sinner; as the swearer is, so is the one who is afraid to swear. This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that there is one fate for all men. Furthermore, the  hearts of the sons of men are full of evil and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives. Afterwards they go to the dead." -- Ecclesiastes 9:2,3, New American Standard.

For more related to Ecclesiastes 12:7, see my studies:
Hope of Life After Death Part 13
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=70
The Spirit That Returns to God
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=12

All mankind, both good and bad, crooked and reckoned justified, meet the same destiny at death. And Solomon goes on to describe that destiny:

For the living know that they will die, but the dead don't know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. -- Ecclesiastes 9:5.

Solomon -- in Ecclesiastes -- did not write of the resurrection under the sun of righteousness, which takes place in the age to come. (Isaiah 65:17,22; Malachi 4:2; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; John 5:28,29; 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24; 12:47,48; Acts 24:15; Hebrews 6:5; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1-5); Solomon is speaking of the present age under the sun of vanity and crookedness, this age in which Satan is god and still blinding the minds of the people. (2 Corinthians 4:4; Galatians 1:4; Revelation 12:9) It is only under the present sun of vanity that all men die, having been condemned to death in Adam, as Paul wrote. (Romans 5:12-19; 8:20-22; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22) We are still living under the sun of corruption, crookedness and vanity. We die, and eventually all who knew us will die, and with their death, no one will be able to say 'I remember when so and so did this, or said that, etc.'

Nevertheless, Solomon continues to later give more regarding the destiny of both good and bad:

Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, where you are going. -- Ecclesiastes 9:10.

It is the destiny of all, both good and bad, to go into the oblivious condition that is called "Sheol" (rendered as "hades" in the New Testament). This is the reversal of Genesis 2:7, as we read in Ecclesiastes 12:7. Thus, it was that Jesus had to go into this same oblivious condition to pay the wages of sin. David wrote of the Messiah as saying to his God: "For you will not leave my soul in Sheol, Neither will you allow your holy one to see corruption." (Psalm 16:10) This agrees with Hebrews 5:7 as both scriptures show that Jesus had to be saved, delivered, from death. Peter spoke of this in Acts 2:14-36. Please note that Peter did not say that either David or Jesus was alive in Sheol/Hades; of David, Peter stated: "Brothers, I may tell you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day." David's flesh had surely decayed at that time, and thus David was still in the condition described at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 to that very day, and David is still that condition. It was foretold, however that Jesus' soul would not be left in Sheol, and that his body of flesh would not see decay. This, Peter says, is speaking of Jesus' resurrection, for God did save him out death and sheol, by raising him from death, not in the flesh, but in the spirit. (2 Peter 3:18) His body, however, did not see decay because it was to be offered in sacrifice to God for our sins. -- Luke 22:19; Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 9:14; 10:10; 1 Peter 2:24.

For more related to this, see my studies:
Under the Sun
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=138
Jesus' Soul in Sheol
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=548

The claim is made that death is "separation".

I can say that the scriptures reveal that to die does indeed separate God's spirit (that keeps one alive) from the body, producing a dead soul, a soul that is no longer sentient. (James 2:26; Ezekiel 18:4,20; Leviticus 21:11; Numbers 6:6; 9:7 --most translations do not render the Hebrew word for "soul" as "soul" in these verses, but instead substitute other words.) The reason being that the spirit in such a case is the power or life force from God that keeps the body alive, making the person a living soul, a living sentient being. (Genesis 2:7) Once the spirit is removed, the body is dead, resulting in the opposite of a living soul, that is, a dead soul.

Nothing in the Bible says that death is "separation", at least not in the sense that dualists use that expression describe their dualistic philsophy.

The claimed is made that physical death is when the soul-spirit separates from the physical body.

The above appears to be reflecting what is often called the dualistic philosophy of the nature of man. The Bible never presents such a philosophy as being truth. Historically, the philosophy was adopted from heathen religions, and has been added to, and read into various scriptures.

We do find in the Bible that when the spirit is separated from the body, that the soul -- the person -- is no longer living. The condemnation upon Adam was that he was to return to what he was before he was living (Genesis 3:19; Ecclesiastes 12:7); it was not that only his body would die while his soul continued to live as dualists claim. Although many read such a philosophy into many scriptures, in reality that philosophy is no where to be found in the Bible. It appears that the Jews adopted that philosophy from the Greeks, and Christians adopted it from the Hellenized Jewish philosophy.

I am wondering, however, if the separation of the alleged "soul-spirit" from the body as described in the dualistic philosophy would actually be a condemnation upon Adam, which condemnation Jesus paid. (Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22) If the death that Jesus died for our sins was that his spirit-soul separated from his body and continued to live while his body died, it would mean that the condemnation upon Adam was that he would not really die, because it would mean that the death Adam died as a consequence of his disobedience was only pertaining to his body (Genesis 2:16,17; 5:5), and he himself did not actually die, but continued to live on after death. Applying Ecclesiastes 12:7 according to that tradition, it would mean that Adam "returned" to God when died? How would that be a condemnation? Since it says that the spirit returns to God, and if one assumes that "spirit" is speaking of conscious existence while the body is dead, it also raises the question: Did Adam have conscious existence with God before he became "a living soul" on the earth?

Those who have adopted the heathen duality philosophy usually also have adopted and adapted the heathen philosophy concerning hades, that it has different realms or compartments, in which it is claimed the good receive rewards of bliss in sheol/hades and the wicked received rewards of suffering in sheol/hades. Of course, none of this is in the Bible, except in Jesus' parody of the Jewish adaptation of that heathen philosophy as recorded in Luke 16:19-31, which was a parable illustrating that "The law and the prophets were until John." (Luke 16:16) Jesus did not present that parody for the purpose of condoning the Jewish adaptation of heathen philosophy, nor does his parody actually follow the description of hades as given by Josephus. Jesus was simply adapting their belief to provide an illustration of what he had been speaking of, that the Law and the Prophets were until John.

For more related to the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, see:
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=42

However, for my present point, if one applies the heathen view of hades to Adam's condemnation, it would not simply be death, but one would have further imagine and assume that the condemnation upon Adam was to a realm of hades that the Jews claimed was a place of suffering, or else that he went to a place of bliss in sheol/hades at death. However, no where does the Bible say that Adam's disobedience brought such a condemnation -- all it says is that dying, he would die, and that he died, and thus death was the condemnation. He began the dying process on the day he ate; before that he was not in a dying condition. -- Genesis 2:17; 5:5; Romans 5:12-19.

Nevertheless it is claimed that God died because Jesus was God in human form.

I have no scriptural reason to imagine the above and add the above to what the Bible says. The Bible never says that the Supreme Being was in human form and thus died. His qualities, his works, and his words were certainly seen in Jesus, but this does not mean that Jesus was God.

Indeed, as stated, it is self-contradictory, for the Supreme Being to be in human form would mean that the Supreme Being would have a glory lower than the angels. (Psalm 8:4,5) Of course, trinitarians and some others will claim that while it was God in human form, it was only the human being Jesus that was made lower than the angels, while the God being Jesus was not made lower than the angels. And thus they keep coming up with more and more assumptions to read into the scriptures. However, in doing so, they are in effect saying that God in human form did not die, in contradiction to the thought presented that God died because Jesus was God in human form.

It is claimed that Jesus’ soul-spirit separated from His body, and John 19:30 is given to support that claim.

John 19:30 -
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished." He bowed his head, and gave up his spirit." -- World English.

We find nothing in this scripture about Jesus' soul being separated from the body, but we do read that Jesus gave up his spirit, the spirit -- the power of life -- from God which kept him alive. -- John 6:57.

This is in harmony with Ecclesiastes 12:7, which depicts death as the opposite of Genesis 2:7.

To pay the price for sin, Jesus had to undergo the opposite of what is stated in Genesis 2:7; by this means he accomplished the reversal of the condemnation in Adam. The condemnation upon Adam would have been eternal had not Jesus paid the price to bring mankind out of that condemnation. (Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 2:5,6) But to pay the price for sin would mean that the man Christ Jesus be physically dead for eternity. Jesus thus eternally sacrificed his body of flesh with its blood for our sins. (Luke 22:19; Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 2:24) Likewise, we read that Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but he was not raised in the flesh, but rather he was raised in the spirit. (1 Peter 3:18)

For more details, related to this, see my studies:
Jesus Died a Human Being - Raised a Spirit Being
http://reslight.net/?p=5
Is Jesus Still a Little Lower Than the Angels?
|http://reslight.net/?p=195

God does not die in any way, shape or form. No scripture ever presents any such idea. This has to all be thought up beyond what is written. -- 1 Corinthians 4:6.

Nevertheless, the soul of Jesus, who is not God (Supreme Being), was dead in sheol/hades without any sentiency. His soul did not remain in hades, but God raised him out of hades, not as a human being, but with the sentiency of a celestial, heavenly, spiritual bodily glory. -- 1 Corinthians 15:39-41,45,47,48; 1 Peter 3:18.

No scripture, however, says that in order for mankind to be saved, that God had to offer Himself in sacrifice to Himself to pay wages of sin for mankind, as I have seen many trinitarians and oneness people claim. That is man's idea, not God's.

It is claimed that the "second person" of the trinity left the body he temporarily inhabited on earth, but that is "divine nature" did not die, nor could it.

Again, I have no scriptural reason to imagine all of the above. The Bible no where, not even once, presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being more than one person. Throughout the Bible, Jesus is distinguished from being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We find nothing at all about God being three persons, etc. All of this has to be imagined beyond what is written.

Nevertheless, Jesus, the Son of God, needed to be saved from death. -- Hebrews 5:7.

It is claimed that Jesus is truly God and truly man.

"God" with a capital "G" in English usually means the Supreme Being. Nevertheless, the original Hebrew and Greek does not have capitalization as we have it in English. Any capitalization is the work of later copyists and translators, and has often applied according to doctrinal bias.

I have no scriptural reason to imagine and assume that Jesus is the Supreme Being at all. No scripture presents Jesus as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is always presented as being the God and Father of Jesus.

Nonetheless, the Hebraic usage of the words for "God/god" do not exactly match the English usage. The only scripture that I can say for certainty that uses the Greek word often transliterated as THEOS of Jesus is John 1:1. Many cite a few -- not very many -- other usages of forms of the Hebrew word often transliterated as EL (Strong's Hebrew #s 410, 430, etc.) and the Greek word transliterated as THEOS in which they believe these words are applied to Jesus, but all of those scriptures are disputed as actually applying these words to Jesus. I believe that there is a possibility that in some of these scriptures these words MAY BE applied to Jesus, but I cannot say so with any definiteness. The scriptures most often presented are Psalm 45:5; Isaiah 9:6; Matthew 1:23; John 20:28; 2 Peter 1:1; Philippians 2:5; 1 Timothy 3:16; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8. There are not very many scriptures that one can present wherein it may be claimed that these words are applied to Jesus. Nevertheless, if the Hebrew or Greek words for "God/god" are being applied to Jesus in these other scriptures the same principle would still apply as I am about to present.

The scriptures, I believe, show that Jesus, before he became flesh, was with the only true God, the only true Supreme Being. (John 17:1,3,5) His being with God is emphasized by stating it twice in John 1:1,2. I believe John did this to show that the Greek word often transliterated as THEOS as applied to Jesus does not mean "Supreme Being" -- He who is the source of all (1 Corinthians 8:6), but rather that he was using that word in the more common sense of might, power, strength. While Jesus was with the only true Supreme Being, he was [past tense] mighty, being a mighty spirit son of God, in his being. Thus the Greek word transliterated as THEOS in John 1:1, as applied to the Logos, should not be understood as meaning the Supreme Being, but the Hebraic sense of might, strength, power.

The problem is that, due to our traditional concept of "God/god", the word "God/god" as we are accustomed to using it does not exactly fit the ancient Hebraic usage. Thus, in many instances, translators end up rendering the word "God/god", not as "God" or "god", but with some form of the basic Hebraic meaning of "God/god", that is, might, strength, power, etc. This, in effect, hides from the English reader that the word for "God/god" is being used in the Hebrew. In other words, the Hebraic usage of the word for "God/god" does not always mean Supreme Being or a false god, and thus is legitimately used of men and angels, without meaning either Supreme Being or false god.

To demonstrate what this, we can use the KJV to show this usage for the word "god" by the way it renders the Hebrew word for "God/god" (Strong's #410, #430) in different ways: The word for God/god is rendered as "mighty" in the following verses: Genesis 23:6; Exodus 9:28; Psalms 50:1; 82:1; 89:6; Ezekiel 31:11. The KJV renders the word God/god as "power" in the following verses: Genesis 31:29; Proverbs 3:27; Micah 2:1. The KJV renders the word for God/god as "might" in Deuteronomy 28:32. The KJV renders it as "strong" in Ezekiel 32:21.

One can prove the above by examining a Hebrew Lexicon (such as Englishman's) under Strong's numbers 410 and 430, or one can look up in Strong's Concordance the individual words "mighty", "power", etc, as I listed above and see the places where it lists Strong's #410 or #430. This is only a sampling of the Hebraic usage of forms of this word as shown in the Bible; nevertheless, it demonstrates that the Hebrew meaning for God/god can be used of men, without meaning that they are the Supreme Being or that they are false gods. As meaning the Supreme Being, it only applies to the God and Father of Jesus, since only the God of Jesus is the source of all might. (1 Corinthians 8:6) Therefore, what is presented above shows that the Hebrew word for God/god does not exactly correspond to the English usage of the word God/god, else the KJV could have rendered Genesis 31:29 as "It is in the god of my hand." As it is, however, English, and most other Romantic languages, do not make use of the word "god" in this manner.

See my study:
The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for "God"
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=19

Nonetheless, due to  the common modern concept of the word "God/god," whenever it is applied to others than the Supreme Being or of false gods, it would be best to render it as the KJV (and all other translations I have examined in varying places) with some form of might, power, etc. Doing so in John 1:1 would give us the English, "the Word was mighty", or the Word was a mighty one", not the Word was God (as meaning, "Supreme Being"). The ONLY reason for not doing so with THEOS as applied to the Logos in John 1:1 is due to man's preconceived notion that Jesus is the Supreme Being, and the further assumption that Jesus is one of three persons of the Supreme Being. This being so, any usage of John 1:1 as an alleged proof of a triune God (which is no where ever once presented in the entire Bible) is circular, that is, 'because we believe that Jesus is the Supreme Being, we believe that THEOS applied to the Logos in John 1:1 means that he is the Supreme Being, thus because of what we believe, John 1:1 is proof that Jesus is the Supreme Being.'

Of course, now that Jesus is no longer the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), the only true Supreme Being has exalted him bodily with power even greater, the plenitude of diety -- mightiness (Colossians 2:9,10), necessary for him to perform the work God has given him to do.

For some of my studies related to John 1:1, see:
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?page_id=4871

Another reason I don't believe that Jesus is God, or a person of God, is that those who believe this most often add to this that Jesus is two different natures, one being the Supreme Being and another being a human being. If one adds to the Bible the alleged "dual natures" (or as some claim "hypostatic union") of Jesus, claiming that he is both man and God, this dogma diminishes and would make light of the work Jesus accomplished as a human, and would, rather than condemn sin in the flesh, actually justify sin the flesh, proving that for a sinless man to obey God, that man would have to be God. -- Romans 8:3.

Furthermore, if Jesus is still a man as many claim, technically, since man is defined as being a little lower than angels (Psalm 8:4,5), Jesus, as a man (Hebrews 2:9), would be still today be a littler lower than the angels, if the trinitarian claims are true, although trinitarians claim that he is still a man, but deny that as a man that he is lower than than the angels.
For more related to this, see my study:
http://reslight.net/?p=195

But probably the most important reason for not accepting such dogma is that, if Jesus is still a human being, then there has been no sacrifice for sin; no one has been redeemed, and all are still under the condemnation of death in Adam. This was the purpose of Jesus' coming the flesh, that is, to sacrifice that body of flesh -- with its blood -- for the world. Jesus sacrificed his human flesh (John 6:51), his human blood (Matthew 26:28) representing his human soul (Deuteronomy 12:23 -- consisting of body of dust and the spirit of life from God -- Genesis 2:7), his human body (Hebrews 10:10), once for all time for sin. As a human being, he is indeed dead forever, else there has been no sacrifice, there has been no price paid for sin. (1 Timothy 2:5,6) The whole basis of the ransom sacrifice as given in the Bible depends on this redemption, and is central two why is important to believe that Jesus did come in the flesh. -- Romans 5:1-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 John 4:2,3,9,14,15; 2 John 1:7.
For more related to this, see my studies:
http://reslight.net/?p=5
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=2399

It is claimed that his physical body did die; His heart stopped beating, and “he gave up his spirit” (Matthew 27:50).

As stated, I have no disagreement with this. However, in the context of the statement it is apparent that the word "spirit" is being misunderstood as it is used in Matthew 27:50. Jesus, when he died, did indeed give up his spirit; this is the spirit, the power, from his God that kept him alive. That spirit is not Jesus' soul. Jesus said of his soul a little before his death: "My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death." (Matthew 26:38) And it was prophesied: "he poured his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53:12) The scriptures show that his soul was dead in the oblivious condition of sheol/hades. -- Ecclesiastes 9:10; Psalms 16:10; Acts 2:14-36.

For more related to this, see my study:
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=12

And as we die, our dead soul will be in the oblivious condition of sheol/hades. -- Ecclesiastes 9:10.

All who are dead in sheol/hades will be brought out that oblivious condition. -- John 5:28,29; Revelation 20:14.

It is stated that as Jesus died physically, he remained alive spiritually.

Actually, Jesus was did not possess the spiritual body until he was raised in the spirit. -- 1 Corinthians 15:39-49; 1 Peter 3:18.
For more related to this, see my study:
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=1

Luke 23:43 is cited as proof that Jesus and the "thief" went to paradise, not physically, but in spirit.

Again, Jesus was a spirit being until he was raised in the spirit. The idea that Jesus and their went to paradise, not physically, but in spirit, has to be imagined and assumed beyond what is written.

What does the Bible itself actually say about paradise? Except for being used of various specific gardens (Deuteronomy 11:10; 1 Kings 21:2; etc.), the word paradise is used in the Bible to refer to: (a) the garden of Eden, “the garden of God” (Genesis 2:8-15; Ezekiel 28:13), i.e., the perfect abode of Adam and Eve while sinless; (b) the symbolic paradise of God from which the overcomers of this age are symbolically given fruit from the tree of life (Revelation 2:7 — compare Ezekiel 28:13; 31:8,9); (c) the earth after the kingdom is set up on it, as and after its curse of sin and death is increasingly removed (Revelation 22:1-3, compare Genesis 2:9, 10; 1 Corinthians 15:26), and it becomes increasingly (Daniel 2:35) “like the garden of Eden” (Ezekiel 36:35), i.e., paradise lost becomes paradise regained, which new earth was seen in vision and prophecy together with the third, the new heaven-the spiritual control of Christ (2 Corinthians 12:1-4; 2 Peter 3:6, 7, 12, 13; Revelation 21:1-3)-that will eventually supplant the spiritual control of Satan, “the god of this age.” — 2 Corinthians 4:4; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 2:2.

“Paradise”, in the Bible never refers to heaven, and most definitely, “paradise” — in the Bible — is never depicted as being a realm of sheol/hades. In this regard, many claim to have knowledge beyond what is written so as to misuse several scriptures to make it appear that paradise was a compartment or realm of sheol, and Jesus took paradise from sheol to heaven. Certainly, if "paradise" was a realm of sheol, David would have expected to go to paradise when he died, but he stated: "In death there is no remembrance of thee: In Sheol who shall give thee thanks?" (Psalm 6:5, ASV) The reality is that David had no expectation of going to paradise in sheol when he died, and he had no concept that "paradise" was a realm of sheol. The Bible no where presents such an idea, although, as I said, many read that thought into several scriptures. Likewise, Hezekiah spoke of his going to sheol, and states to Jehovah: "Sheol cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: They that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth." (Isaiah 38:18, ASV) Obviously, Hezekiah did not expect that he would be in paradise when he died.

So what did Jesus mean by his words recorded in Luke 23:43? Was Jesus telling the criminal that they both would be together in paradise on that very day? We should note that the criminal had asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into his kingdom. More correctly rendered, Jesus replied: "“Verily [Amen, or Assuredly], I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise.” (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible) In everyday English of today, we might say, "What I tell today is true,...." There are a large number of passages in the Septuagint translation in which the Greek construction corresponds to that of Luke 23:43: “I say unto you this day” corresponds to the emphatic, “I testify unto you this day”, e.g. Deuteronomy 6:6; 7:11; 8:1; 10:13; 11:8,13,28..”

For more related to this, see my studies:
Thief in Paradise
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=30
The Repentant Criminal in Paradise
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=94


Jesus did die physically (John 19:34); the question is, is that the death that he died for our sins? Indeed, this was the death that Jesus died for our sins (Romans 5:6,12-13; 1 Corinthians 15:3,15,16), and thus, that was the condemnation that was placed upon Adam. There is nothing at all in the Bible that saya that Jesus had to be the Supreme Being in order to die for our sins, or that the death that he died to pay the wages of sin was that only his body would die, while his soul or spirit stayed alive.

We are next presented with "the matter of spiritual death." I do agree that Jesus did indeed experience the result of sin, although he was not a sinner, that is, God did forsake him momentarily, that thus he be fully as a sinner before he died for our sins. (Mark 15:54) Thus, Jesus was fully replacing the human race as a sinner. There is no need, however, to imagine and assume that alleged dual natures of of Jesus into this, so as to claim that it was not the Supreme Being Jesus who experienced this, but rather the human being Jesus. Of course, Jesus was indeed at the time a human being -- a little lower than the angels -- nothing more, nothing less.

While sin certainly separates one from God, that separation itself is definitely not the death penalty that was placed upon Adam. I don't know of any scripture that says that this separation from God is spiritual death. Scripturally, one could speak of one being spiritually dead because God reckons things that are as though they were, from God's standpoint all the offspring of Adam are considered as dead -- children of wrath, sons of disobedience -- dead in their sins (Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 2:13), and those who have become justified are considered, reckoned, imputed, counted as alive. (Genesis 15:6; Luke 20:38; Romans 3:24-28; 4:1-25; 6:11,13; 8:10; 2 Corinthians 5:18,19; Galatians 3:5; Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13; James 2:23) The idea of "spiritual death" as could be applied to this reckoning of death, however, does not do away with the final result of sin, that is, the opposite of life.

For more related to this, see my studies:
Was Adam Sentenced to Spriitual Death?
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=427
Wages of Sin - Spiritual Death?
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=355
Spiritually Dead in Sin
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=353


It is claimed that the question for all people to ask is: “what will happen to my soul/spirit when it leaves my physical body?” It is further claimed that when we die, out spirits leave out body and will either spend eternity with Jesus in heaven, or we will go to hell to spend eternity in "outer darkness" where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 8:12 is cited.

The Bible does not speak of the soul as being sentient when the body dies; it does speak of the soul as being dead, a soul that no longer is iving, and that longer has sentiency. The word "spirit" is used with many different shades of meaning in the Bible. The Bible tells us that at death the "spirit" returns to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7); this is a reversal of Genesis 2:7. The spirit of all, even that of the most horrible sinner, returns to God (now through Jesus) who gave it. Without that spirit the person no longer has any life at all; he is dead.

Matthew 8:12 says nothing at all about anyone being alive while dead, or a spirit or soul that continues to live after the death of the body. It does not speaking hades/sheol at all. Nor is there any menntion of Gehenna. Indeed, Matthew 8:12 is not speaking of anyone weeping and gnashing their teeth while dead, but it speaks of the Jews' being thrown into outer darkness due to their rejection of Messiah. They remain in this outer darkness until they proclaim of Jesus: "Blessed is he who come in the name of Jehovah." -- Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Psalms 118:26; Matthew 23:2=38,39.
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=506

The spirit of all, both good and bad, return to God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7) Without that spirit there is nothing living that goes anywhere. However, due to Jesus' sacrifice, God will return that spirit in resurrection. The ONLY hope of future life given in the Bible is the resurrection. If there is no resurrection, there is no future life at all, and all who are fallen asleep in Christ have perished, and will not be alive anywhere. -- 1 Corinthians 15:12-19.

It is claimed that his death provided us spiritual life, both here and in heaven. The following is quoted: “And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.” -- Romans 8:11.

Jesus' sacrifice only purchases that which is lost. Adam did not lose life in heaven; he lost life on earth. Jesus sacrifice his human life to bring back life to humanity, with the glory that is a little lower than the angels.

See my studies:
The Restoration of All Things
The Ransom For All
With What Kind of Body Will We Be Raised?

One who puts his faith in Christ is reckoned, counted, imputed, as being justified and thus as alive in this age. (Genesis 15:6; Luke 20:38; Romans 3:24-28; 4:1-25; 6:11,13; 8:10; 2 Corinthians 5:18,19; Galatians 3:5; Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13; James 2:23) Nevertheless, it is not until the age to come, in the resurrection "last day", that the full realization of that life is obtained. -- Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; John 5:28,29; 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24; 12:47,48; Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 1:20-22; 2 Corinthians 5:4,5; Ephesians 1:12-14; Hebrews 6:5.







Tuesday, February 2, 2016

Response to Bible Baptist Tract

Over the years, several have pointed me to a page that contains the text of a tract, evidently written by James L. Melton, for "Bible Baptist Publications". The tract is entitled "The Bible Vs. Jehovah's Witnesses".

Although I am not associated with the Jehovah's Witnesses, the tract, if applied to the things I have written would actually misrepresent what I have written, even as it appears to do with the JWs. The author did not appear, however, to be too concerned about getting the facts correct, but zealously made many false statements as though fact. Some of these are not that important, but there some that are very misleading.

The tract begins with Charles Taze Russell, who, by the way, was never a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization. The tract claims that in 1879, Brother Russell founded a magazine called "The Herald of the Morning". This is false. The magazine with the title, "Herald of the Morning" was founded in 1874 by Nelson H. Barbour. The magazine Brother Russell founded in 1879 was "Zion's Watch Tower".

It is claimed that Brother Russell incorporated "Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society" in 1884; this also is incorrect. "Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society" was formed in 1881, and it was not "incorporated" as claimed. In 1884, Russell was the main founder of the legal corporation entitled, "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society".

I point these errors out to illustrate that the author is evidently not fully concerned with getting the facts correct.

I agree with the author that one of the reasons God has given us the Bible is that of DOCTRINE. Nevertheless, sound doctrine as presented in the Bible is often confused with the doctrine of man, which has been formulated by thinking beyond what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6), and which doctrine has to be explained or  reasoned by applying a lot of assumptions that have to be added to, and read into, the Bible.Most who do this, however, do not seem to be aware that they are actually thinking beyond what is written; many often claim that they do so because it is the holy spirit that is leading them into the truth.

I believe that the reason that many have sent me the link to the site is evidently because I am in general agreement with JWs that the Bible does not teach the trinity dogma, and/or because I belive that Jesus, having sacrificed his body of flesh for our sins, was not raised from the dead as a human being but rather as a spirit being, and therefore, that Jesus' return is not in his former body, but that he returns as a spirit being. I am also in general agreement with the JWs that those who go into the second death are not physically tormented forever. In each of these areas, however, I may disagree with the details as the JWs may present them.

As for the scriptures presented in the tract, most, if not all, I have already examined before on my various websites; in such cases, I will not be going into too much detail in this response, but will simply be giving links to the applicable studies I have presented elsewhere.

Is There a Trinity?

Contrary to what is stated, the Bible no where presents any idea that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a triune God; such an idea has to imagined beyond what is written, assumptions formulated to support that dogma, and these assumptions have to be added to, and read into, the scriptures to make it appear that the scriptures support what has been imagined and assumed.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - Contrary to what is stated, there is nothing at all in the verse that says that every human is a trinity. Paul was speaking of the spirit (Ephesians 4:4; Philippians 1:27), the soul (Acts 4:32; Philippians 1:27), and the body of the church (Romans 12:4,5; Ephesians 4:4) See my studies:
Is Man a Trinity?
The Spirit, Soul and Body of the Church
Spirit, Soul and Body

Genesis 1:26; 11:7 - It is claimed that "us" and "our" in these verses "obviously refer to the Holy Trinity." In reality, there is nothing at all in the words "us" and "our" in these verses that gives us any reason to imagine, assume, add to, and read into these verses that these words have anything to do with the alleged "Holy Trinity" which is never found anywhere in the Bible. If I say to my son, "Let us build our house according to our plans," I am not saying that my son is another person of myself.  See my related studies:
Let Us and Elohim
Who Is God Speaking To?
Let Us - God Speaks to His Son
"Let Us" and "One of Us"

Matthew 3 -  It is claimed that Matthew 3 we find all three members of the trinity. We do find that God is mentioned, not as being three persons, but as only one person. (Matthew 3:9-16) At Jesus' baptism we do find that Jesus is mentioned, but he is not said to be God or a person of God, and we find that the God and Father of Jesus speaks, and we also find that the Spirit of God (one person) is said to descend as a dove. All three are mentioned, but there is nothing that says that they are all three persons of God. We also find that John the Baptizer is mentioned.
See my related study:
Jesus, Spirit, Heavenly Voice - Trinity?

Matthew 28:19 - This scripture is quoted, evidently with the assumption that, as it reads in the common texts, that it is speaking of the imagined triune God. However, I do not believe that Jesus spoke the words as we find them in the extant Greek texts of this verse. According to the Shem-Tob manuscript, Matthew 28:19 simply says, "Go" followed by verse 19: "and teach them to carry out all the things which I have commanded you forever". No mention is made of baptizing in anyone's name. Eusebius' earlier quotes of Matthew 28:19 does having Jesus telling his disciples to baptize in his name, but no mention of the Father or the Holy Spirit.  Nevertheless, even as it reads in the extant Greek manuscripts, there is nothing in the words attributed to Jesus that warrants adding to the scripture the idea of three persons all of whom are the one Supreme Being.
See my related studies:
The Baptismal Name
One Name

1 John 5:7 - It is claimed that this scripture tells of three that bear record in heaven, evidently with the thought that this is referring to the alleged triune God. Although I highly doubt that John wrote of the heavenly testimony as it appears in the Textus Receptus, even in the words of the Textus Receptus we find no mention of these three all being members of a triune God. Such a thought has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into those words.
See my related studies:
1 John 5:7 - Does This Speak of Three As One God?
1 John 5:7 - The Usage of "Hen"
Three That Bear Record

John 1:1-3,14; 1 John 1:1-3 - It is claimed that Jesus is the Word (Logos), to which I agree, although I am sure that Mr. Melton imagines that these scriptures are speaking of the triune God. In reality, neither scripture says anything about a triune God, or that the Supreme Being is more than one person. See my studies:
Jesus' Prehuman Glory
Is Jesus "God" Whom He was With?
The Logos Was Theos
That Which Was From the Beginning
The Logos of God
What Beginning?
John 1:1 and Trinitarian Assumptions


Three Gods and the Trinity - It is denied that trinity is three Gods. I do not claim that trinitarians believe in three Gods, but I will state that some of the things the trinitarians say, if followed to their logical conclusion, would lead one to believe such, and if applied scripturally would end up with more than one God, more than one Supreme Being. Nevcrtheless, regarding this, I have heard ministers who believe in the trinity refer to the trinity as three Gods in one God. Additionally, many Christians and others who do not believe in the trinity have indeed stated words to the effect that the trinitarian believes three Gods in one God, etc., but I have endeavored to discourage such. On the other hand, the fact some may mistakenly refer to the trinity as three Gods does not make the trinity dogma truth; it only means that those who say such are mistaken in what they said. Additionally, the trinitarian may often complain that a non-trinitarian is misrepresenting the trinity when actually, the non-trinitarian may be just following the logical conclusion of applying certain trinitarian ideas to certain verses. At any rate, the trinitarian dogma is not found anywhere in the Bible; it has to be imagined and assumed upon any scripture presented that is claimed to support the added-on trinity dogma.
See my study:
About Jesus and His God

Psalm 19:1 - It is claimed that, according to this verse, creation declares the Trinity doctrine. Actually, there is nothing at all in this verse about a triune God, or that creation declares such a God. The heavens do declare the glory of the God and Father of Jesus. -- Ephesians 1:3,17.

Romans 1:20
- The same is claimed for  this verse as with the last verse: that it is saying that creation declares the Trinity doctrine. In reality, there is nothing in the verse that offers any reason to imagine and assume that "God" here is speaking of a triune God. Indeed, Romans 1:1-8 consistently presents "God" as being only person, and "God" is consistently distinguished from Jesus, the Son of God. There is no scriptural reason for thinking that Paul did keep using the word "God" to speak of that same one person throughout Romans Chapter One, including Romans 1:20. This is in harmony with John 17:1,3, where Jesus says that his Father in the only true God, and also 1 Corinthians 8:6.

Alleged Trinities in Creation - We are presented with a lot of things in God's creation that is claimed to be proof of the trinity. In reality, none of the things presented offer any proof whatsoever for the trinity dogma. For instance, it is claimed that the "universe consists of three parts: Time, Space, and Matter." Does the trinity dogma claim that God is "three parts"? If so, this would mean that the Father is not wholly, or fully, "God", but rather, if applied as equal parts, it would mean that the Father is one-third of God; and so forth. Likewise, with all alleged creation proofs of the trinity presented; not one of them provide any proof of the trinity. Nor is the number "three" the only number that can be found in God's creation. God's Word, however, never testifies that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is more than one person; Jehovah is always depicted as being only one person, and Jehovah is always distinguished from being the one whom he sent forth.

2 Corinthians 12:2 - Evidently, it is thought that since Paul mentions the third heaven, it is being imagined this offers some illustration of the trinity. Peter mentions the three heavens as well as the three earths in 2 Peter 3:5-13. For this to present an illustration of what is claimed for the triune God, each of these would have equal to some whole, whatever that whole might be. Each of these heavens and earths do represent a part (not the whole) of God's plan for man, but none could be said to represent the whole of that plan. See my studies:
The Third Heaven and Paradise
Jehovah's Plan of the Ages

The Sun and Its Rays - The statement is made that "The sun has three kinds of rays: chemical rays, light rays, and heat rays. Chemical rays cannot be seen or felt, but they can be very powerful. When one receives a sunburn, it is from the sun's chemical rays. This is a type of God the Father. Light rays are sometimes visible to the human eye. This is a type of Jesus Christ." I do not know of any scripture that presents any of this as being a "type" of the Father and Jesus, but assuming this to be so, if one attempts to apply this to the triune God philosophy, it would not fit, since the trinity dogma claims that both the Father and the Son are wholly, fully God, thus not a part of God. This same principle hold true for all the alleged examples of trinities that are claimed to exist in God's creation. In fact, there is absolutely nothing in God's Word or in God's creation that presents any concept of a trinity as defined by the self-proclaimed "orthodoxy".

Understanding the Trinity - While even many trinitarians have presented comments that the trinity is not understandable, that is not the basis for not adding the triune God dogma to the Bible. Trinitarians often think that because the imagine and assume this, and imagine and assume that, which they then place over many scriptures, that one should simply accept what is being imagined and assumed as being fact. The real basis for not adding the triune God to the Bible is simply that such a concept is nowhere presented in the faith once delivered to the saints, and contrary to what trinitarians often claim, the faith as presented in the Bible is fully at harmony with itself without adding all that the trinitarian has to imagine and assume in order to make the scriptures appear to support the added-on concept.
See my studies:
The Real Reasons for Not Believing the Trintiy
Genesis 1:26,27 and Trinitarian Assumptions
John 1:1 and Trinitarian Assumptions

Jesus Christ is Deity - I will first state that I do not have any objection to the deity of Jesus, as it is presented in the Bible as related to the Hebraic usage of the forms of the Hebrew and Greek words that are translated as God or god. The basic Hebraic meaning of the words for God/god is that of might, strength, power. As such it is used not just of Jehovah and false gods, but also of men and angels, and of abstract strength, power, as have demonstrated from the Bible itself in my study:
The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for "God"

There is nothing at all revealed in the Bible, however, that presents Jesus as being the second member of the alleged trinity, or triune God.
Related to this, see my studies to:
The Deity of Christ

The Eternity of Jesus - It is alleged that "Jesus Christ stands co-existent in Eternity with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit." "In Eternity" to the trinitarian usually means "outside of time", "timeless", or having no beginning or end. In reality, there is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that corresponds with such a meaning. Jesus, however, now that God has raised him from the dead, is eternal, since he will never die again. But, although, many translations render certain verses with bias that Jesus existed from all eternity past, if the verses are examined carefully, we find that none of them actually support what is being claimed.


Zechariah 12:10 -- See my study: The One Pierced

John 1:1 - Most trinitarians ignore any application the Hebraic Biblical usage of applying common might or power to the Word in John 1:1 and assume the Greek word THEOS as applied to the Word in John 1:1 is in the sense of the Supreme Being. If one were to apply this assumption to what is actually written, it would literally mean that John was speaking of two different Supreme Beings, one Supreme Being who is with the other Supreme Being in the beginning of the world of mankind. Of course, the trinitarians have come up with a many assumptions that they add to, and read into, John 1:1 so as to explain this in such a way as to make it appear that John was writing about two different persons of the same one the trinune God, which concept is never once presented any where in the Bible. In reality, Jesus and Paul both identify the Father as the only true God (as meaning Supreme Being), thus the default reasoning should be that THEOS applied to the Word in John 1:1 is not in the sense of Supreme Being. Therefore, applying the Hebraic usage to the Logos in John 1:1 as many translations do in many other verses, it would understood as "the Word was mighty".
For more details concerning this, see the links provided at the John 1:1 Resource Page


God willing, I will be adding more to this as I have time...