Wednesday, May 17, 2017

Response to "Evidence for Christianity"

In response to:
Although the page is directed toward Jehovah's Witnesses (we are not with that organization), we have found so much false information on this page, that we feel a need to respond to what is being said there.
The name of the page is entitled:
How do I show to my Jehovah Witness friend that Jesus is not the Archangel Michael?
Although we are not with the Jehovah's Witnesses, we believe that the Christian scriptural evidence does indeed lead to the conclusion that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. What is not discussed on the page is the fact tht most of the protestant reformers believed that Jesus is Michael. Thus, this teaching is not something new or unique with the Jehovah's Witnesses, although the reformers usually attributed the Archangel as being uncreated. Since we have discussed all concerning this that is presented on by "Evidence for Christianity" elsewhere, we refer to:
The true scriptural evidence of Christianity as found in the Bible is that Jesus is not Ehyeh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and that he is God's firstborn creature. Jesus is indeed now exalted high above the angels, he is no longer a little lower than the angels as he was while in the days of his flesh. I do not believe that in the scriptures Jesus has never been of the class that is referred as "angels" in Hebrews 1.
See:
The part that of even greater to concern to us, however, are those statements made concerning Charles Taze Russell.
Was Russell the Founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses, as claimed on that page?
No, he was not.
Did Russell Teach That Only His Followers Are Saved?
Absolutely NOT! This appears to be attributing the teaching of the JWs to Russell. Indeed, he believed in the ransom for all. What Russell taught was almost the opposite of what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach.
See:
Did Russell use language that was unique to his movement, such as the word "Jehovah"?
We would say that every denomination, sect, or movement has some language that is unique to that particular group; however, "Jehovah" -- God's Holy Name as found in the King James Version and the American Revised Version (now American Standard Version) was not at all unique to Russell or the Bible Students movement at all.
See our research regarding:
Additionally, we highly doubt that Russell would have ever thought of the Bible Students' movement as being "his movement".
Did Russell predict the end of the world for 1914, using Daniel 8:14?
Absolutely NOT! Russell presented several lines of Biblical prophecies that lead to the year 1914, but Daniel 8:14 was not one of them.
See:
However, it is misleading to say that Russell was expecting the end of the world in 1914, although one could draw such a conclusion from his earlier statements. In 1876, Russell accepted and adopted Barbour's conclusion that the time of trouble was to end in 1914. However, in 1904, ten years before 1914, Russell rejected that idea and came to believe that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914, and that the finally passing away of the present heavens and earth would be sometime after 1914. Although Russell, from the first issue of his magazine, preached against the traditional "end of the world" as preached by most Adventists, one could definitely say that after1904 Russell was NOT expecting "the end of the world" in 1914. Russell did not, however, believe the "end of world" -- Armageddon -- as the Jehovah's Witnesses teach it; he was not expecting millions of unbelievers to be eternally destroyed.
See:
When the end of the world did not come in 1914, did Russell say that "we have entered the Investigative Judgement"?
First of all, Russell was NOT expecting the end of the world to come in 1914, nor did he change his view concerning the beginning of the time of trouble as beginning in 1914. He died in 1916 still with the belief that the time of trouble had begun in 1914, just as he believed before 1914, except that in 1915 he appears to have separated the battle of Armageddon from time of trouble, in that he presented the battle as being the final phase of the time of trouble.
We did an computer search of Russell's works for the phrase "investigative judgment", as well as "investigative judgement" and could not find any place that Russell ever used such a term; we are not sure what the author of "Evidence of Christianity" page is referring to concerning Russell allegedly claiming that in 1914, "we have entered the Investigative Judgement." We suspect, however, that the author has confused Russell with Rutherford, or with what the JWs teach, or perhaps with the 7th Day Adventists.
Did Russell Make a Lot of Money From the Movement?
ABSOLUTELY NOT! If making money was his aim, it would have been a lot easier for him to make a lot of money if he had kept his chain of clothing stores. Instead, he divested himself of his fortune in order to provide funds for the spreading of the Gospel.
Did Russell sell "Miracle Wheat"?
Russell himself did not sell any of Stoner's Miracle Wheat, nor did he originate the name "Miracle Wheat', nor did he originate any of the claims for Stoner's Miracle Wheat.
Was "Miracle Wheat" a scam?
NO!
Was Russell sued regarding Miracle Wheat?
NO!
See:
Did Russell's Wife Divorce Russell Because of Marital Unfaithfulness?
NO! Mrs. Russell stated in court that she was not accusing Russell of adultery.
Was Rutherford hired to keep Russell out of jail?
ABSOLUTELY NOT! No authority was ever threatening to put Russell in jail, thus no lawyer was needed to keep Russell out of jail.
Did Rutherford continue the policies of Russell?
Absolutely NOT! In a very short time after Russell's death, Rutherford virtually destroyed the legal entity that Russell had left, and had reconstructed it so that it would serve as a basis for creating a new religious organization.
Did Russell teach that Jesus is "not deity"?
No, Russell did teach the deity of Christ, but he showed from the scriptures what this deity means.
Did Russell Teach that the Holy Spirit is a force for good, rather than a part of God?
We did a search of Russell's works for the phrase "force for good", and could not find any. We are not sure that Russell ever defined the Holy Spirit as being a "part of God", but as we might speak of our finger as a part of us, so we could refer to God's Holy Spirit as being a part of him, since Jesus referred to God's Holy Spirit as God's finger.
What Russell taught concerning God's Holy Spirit may be found in Studies 8-11  of:
Did Russell teach that the only true acceptable name for God is Jehovah?
The question, in the very way it is asked, is highly deceptive, and is evidently designed with the thought that the English word "Jehovah" is being claimed to be the only acceptable spelling and pronunication of God's Holy Name in English. Russell never taught such an idea (nor, as far as we know, do even the JWs teach such an idea). The Bible, however, only speaks of one Holy Name; it never speaks of Holy Names (plural).
See:
The 144,000 of Revelation 7, 14:
Niether Russell's view or our view is the same as the Jehovah's Witnesses teach. However, ultimately God is the one who will decide who will live in heaven and who will live on earth.
See:
Of course, there were no "JW members" in the days of Russell -- Russell did not believe in such sectarianism; nevertheless, Russell taught that there were many amongst all the Christian sects and denominations that would be in heaven. Our own views, however, although different from Russell's in some applications of scripture, but we acknowledge, as did Russell, that God's true church may be found amongst all the Christian denominations.
Regarding Hell, Soul, Spirit and the condition of the Dead
Did Russell teach there were no true Christians at all until he came to call people back to the true gospel?
No, Russell did not teach such a doctrine.
What about the faithful and discreet slave (faithful and wise servant)?
See our conclusions:
Did Russell Forbid Blood Transfusions?
No.
See our conclusions on this:
What About Holidays?
Regarding the Cross
Did Russell claim to be "the sole interpreter of the Bible"?
No.
Is Jesus the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
No, no where in the scriptures is Jesus ever presented as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Indeed, Jesus is always distinguished as being sent by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
See:
Doesn't John 1:1 Say that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
No. See:
Does John 1:14 say that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
No.
See:
Does the Bible present Jesus as being uncreated?
No.
See:
Was Jesus Worshiped?
Yes, but not as being the only true God who had sent him. -- John 17:3.
See:
Does a comparison of Colossians 1:16 with Hebrews 2:10 prove that Jesus is Yahweh (Jehovah), the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
No.
See:
Does Hebrews 1:2 show that Jesus is the Creator of the entire universe?
No.
See:
Didn't Jesus, by his words recorded in John 8:58, claim to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? (Exodus 3:14)
No.
See:
The rest to be added later, God willing...
One can find that on close examination, however, that none of the scriptures present the idea that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. See:
Regarding Eternal Punishment, Hell, Soul, etc.
See:

Some Historical Inaccuracies Related to the Bible Students

By Ronald R. Day, Senior
This post is in response to an alleged "Apologetic Study: Introduction to Jehovah's Witness Beliefs", that appears on a site, evidently owned by Catholic. We are not associated with the Jehovah's Witnesses organization, but the article does present several misleading and/or false statements concerning Charles Taze Russell. The article is presented by Alfredo Nevarez. We do not attack Mr. Nevarez personally, but we do wish to present the facts related to many of his statements, especially as related to Charles Taze Russell. This work is in progress, which means that we will be adding more to this, God willing, as time permits. =================================================
It is claimed that Russell founded the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1872. This is false, since Russell never founded the Jehovah's Witnesses movement at all. Russell was never a member of the Jehovah's witnesses organization, and he did not believe in such an organization. Russell preached against such human authoritarianism, and certainly should not be considered the founder of that in which he did not believe, and which he preached against.
In 1872, however, I am not sure what one considered that Russell founded or started on that day; Russell was associated with a small Bible study group in Allegheny, PA (now part of Pittsburg); that group, however, was not started in 1872, but was already in existence in 1872. Russell does mention that it was 1872 that the group came to a clear understanding of the ransom; however, the JW leadership today has rejected the view as Russell and his associates came to understand in 1872. After Russell died, Rutherford first began to reject the basis of the ransom around 1923, with his new light concerning the second death. In 1938, Rutherford openly rejected the very basis of the Ransom that Russell and his associates had understood in 1872.
See our research: The Watchtower's Self-Contradiction About the Ransom Adam and the Ransom Sacrifice Nevertheless, that small group in 1872 could hardly be the founding point of the Bible Students movement, and most definitely not the founding year of the Jehovah's Witnesses, which was actually founded by Joseph Rutherford after Russell died.
For proof, see the research under Charles Taze Russell and Jehovah's Witnesses
It is asserted that at the age of 20, Russell began preaching that there is no hell. This is misleading, since Russell did preach concerning the Bible hell; he was not preaching that there is "no hell". Russell learned from some of his predecessors what the real Bible hell is, and that is what he began to preach.
See the archive related to Russell and "Hell".
It is asserted that Russell borrowed "heavily from the ideas of J. H. Paton who published his works under the title Day Dawn". Actually, Paton's "Day Dawn" was a rehash of "The Three Worlds" that had been published a few years before by Russell and Barbour. Russell already his his basic understanding of the divine plan befoe he Paton published the "Day Dawn".
It is asserted that Russell went on to claim that his works were divinely inspired; actually Russell, unlike Ellen G. White, disclaimed that his works were divinely inspired from the very beginning. See the Russell archive on "Infallibility".
Russell is referred to as though he were claiming to have been a "prophet" of God. In fact, Russell disclaimed being a prophet, and disclaimed that his conclusions were "prophecy". See our research on Russell and Bible Prophecy
It is asserted that Russell was "forced by federal authorities to return money to farmers whom he had sold his 'miracle wheat'". This is entirely false!!! No government authority ever ordered Russell to return any money concerning the sale of Stoner's "Miracle Wheat. Russell did offer to return the money to anyone who was dissatisfied with the wheat, but not one of those buyers of that wheat requested a refund, and thus none of that money was ever returned. By stating "his" Miracle Wheat, the impression is that Russell himself invented and made the claims for this wheat, which is false. It was Kenneth Stoner who first discovered this wheat, and who reported his own results regarding the wheat. Russell did present Stoner's claims and the claims presented in newspapers reports regarding this "Miracle Wheat", but the "Miracle Wheat" was not Russell's "Miracle Wheat", nor was it Russell or anyone associated with the Bible Students who gave it the name "Miracle Wheat".
It is claimed that "the only miraculous thing about the wheat was it's exhorbant price and outlandish claims." Russell never originated any claim for the wheat, except for the suggestion (not actually a claim) that the wheat may present an indication of the Millennial blessings that are yet to come. The fact is that many farmers testified in the court of validity of the claims of Stoner and others regarding the when wheat; although the Daily Eagle ignored all this, and focused on their alleged many government witnesses (which was actually only one witness who presented some alleged findings of some people who evidently somehow had "tested" a few of the wheat seeds and concluded that they were inferior).
Russell himself did not sell the wheat, nor did he set the price for the wheat. Those Bible Students who sold the wheat set the price at $1.00 a pound, which was 25 cents less than Stoner and some others had been selling the wheat. No one seemed to object to Stoner or anyone else selling the wheat for $1.25 a pound, but they did object to the Bible Students' selling of the wheat for $1.00 a pound.
See our documented research regarding Russell and Stoner's Miracle Wheat
It is being claimed that Russell "under oath in a court in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, Russell stated that he was an expert Scripture scholar and was fluent in Greek." In fact, the actual court record shows that he disclaimed being a Greek scholar, and certainly that he never claimed to be "fluent in Greek". J.J. Ross very deceitfully rearranged various parts of the court record so as to make it appear that Russell claimed to be an expert. This has been pointed out many times, and yet Ross' deceitfulness continues to be repeated over and over.
See the archives on "Perjury" and "J. J. Ross"
It is being claimed that "in 1897 his wife divorced him for having adulterous affairs with two different women." In fact, the court records show that Mrs. Russell did not claim that Russell was had committed adultery at all. Mrs. Russell presented some hearsay testimony that was designed to marr Russell's character, but she denied that she was claiming that her husband had committed adultery. The testimony concerning this was stricken from the court record, but the Eagle ignored this. At any rate, the court records show that she filed for divorce on the grounds of "mental cruelty". The real reason for their separation to begin with was over the management she sought for the Watch Tower magazine, and her desire to use that magazine to promote her "women's rights" agenda, which Russell refused to allow her to do.
It is claimed "When the judge had ruled against him, Russell immediately transferred his property, worth over $240,000 to the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society." Actually, although this money was legally in Russell's name, it was being held in trust for use by the Watch Tower Society. Mr. Russell had created several side businesses that was intended to create funds for use by the Watch Tower Society, among them the one called "The United States Investment Company". This company was a partnership created by Russell; its capital stock was $1,000. Pastor Russell furnished that $1,000 out of his personal means. Nevetheless, this put any earnings from this "company" legally in Russell's name, although all the funds created through this company as well as other monies that Russell was holding in trust for the Watch Tower Society were eventually to be turned over to the Watch Tower Society. Mrs. Russell knew of this arrangement long before she even separated from Russell.
For more related to this, see the archive "Russell's 'Divorce'"
See also the archive regarding the "United States Investment Company"

Millennial Dawnists

It is stated that this "sect first was formally know as the Millennial Dawnists, then shortly thereafter as Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society." Of course, there was no JW "sect" in the days of Russell; Russell was a non-sectarian who believed that God's people could found amongst all the various denominations and sects that profess to be Christian. In 1881, Russell wrote his first volume of a series of Bible studies which he originally called "Millennial Dawn". Those who believed in the Millennial Kingdom of Christ as outlined in those volumes were dubbed "Millennial Dawnists" by others; this was never a "formal" name that these groups used of themselves.
"Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society" refers to the legal entity; the legal entity name that was used before this was called "Tower Publishing Company", not "Millennial Dawnists". The legal entity itself however is not the association of Bible Students that formed as result of Russell's work. It is correct that in 1896 the name was changed to "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society"; it continued to have this name until Russell's death in 1916. It is made to appear in the article that Russell, in 1909, changed the name of "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society" to "People's Pulpit Association", but that also in the same year, 1909, he changed it back to "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, which really doesn't make a lot of sense. Actually, "People's Pulpit Association", as a legal entity, was formed in Brooklyn, NY, but this did not do away with the original entity that had been formed in Pennsylvania. In moving the headquarters to Brooklyn, Russell found that, in order to do business in New York, he had to form a new entity in New York. The formation of the new entity, however, did not do away the old entity. Many years after Russell died, Rutherford later had the People Pulpits Association renamed to "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc."

The Name "Jehovah"

It is claimed that the name Jehovah appears no where in Scripture. It is claimed that the name Jehovah is a mistranslation of the name Yahweh. It appears to be saying that "Yahweh" is found in the original King James Bible; if so, this is definitely false. It is claimed that the KJV "used Greek and Hebrew documents (Textus Recptus) that were later found to have had various mis-tranlations. These were later corrected, but the name Jehovah stuck." Actually, Nevarez presents several false statements that simply do not conform with the facts.
Regarding the English form, "Jehovah": Although many refer to this an English translation, it not actually a translation, but a rendering of the Hebrew name of God into an English form. Translated, it means, "He is, He will be, He causes to be", etc. The English form "Jehovah, as such, is not a different "name" than the name given in the original Hebrew as represented by the Hebrew tetragrammaton of God's Holy Name.
Nevarez appears to be confused concerning "Textus Receptus", since the Textus Receptus contains only the New Testament, which was written in Koine Greek, not Biblical Hebrew. However, the KJV rendering of the Holy Name as "Jehovah" appears not in the New Testament, but in the Old Testament. As far as we know, the Holy Name appears in all the known early Hebrew manuscripts and texts of the Old Testament. The KJV used the Masoretic Text for the Old Testament -- not the Textus Receptus; the Masoretic Text of the Old Testament is still the basic text that is used by most translations, although there are many translations of the Old Testament are based on the Septuagint, or the Latin Vulgate. God's Holy Name appears in the Masoretic text more than 6,000 times.
"Yahweh" also is a English form of that same name. Yahweh is based, not on the Hebrew as often claimed, but is evidently a contracted form of the Holy Name given in Koine Greek. The English form "Jehovah" is based directly on one of the forms given in the Hebrew Masoretic text. Neither form (Jehovah/Yahweh) has anything to do with the Greek Textus Receptus, which does not contain the name as either Jehovah or Yahweh. The Textus Receptus, based on the Greek manuscripts that do the same, usually presents the Holy Name in Greek words that are transliterated as KURIOS (Lord), THEOS (God), or some other word. The Textus Receptus does have the poetic short from of God's Holy Name in the term often rendered as "Hallelujah", meaning "Praise Jah". The Textus Receptus also retains the short form the Holy Name in various Hebrew names as rendered into the Koine Greek. Of course, neither the English form "Jehovah", nor the English form "Yahweh", can be found in either the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts as such, since neither language is English, and neither language complies completely with English spelling and phonemes. Indeed, there is a degree of uncertainly as to how phonemes were applied in both ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek, and then there is a further degree of being inaccurate in transliterating words with the same exact phonemes of the original Hebrew and Koine Greek.
Indeed, none of the English forms of any Bible name given any in any English translation can be found in either the Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament, nor in the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, not the form "Jesus", "Joshua", "Yeshua", "Yahshua", "Elijah", "Eliyah", "Elias", and on and on -- none of these are in the original Hebrew Bible nor in the original Greek Bible.
See our studies on God's Holy Name:

Denouncement and Hatred of All Religions

It is claimed that in 1872 Russell "stated that God rejected all existing Churches and that from thenceforward only Russell and his followers would be God's spokesmen." This is highly misleading. Russell did believe that in 1878, God's favor to the "nominal church" ended, as Jesus found the denominational systems of confusion to be wanting, and thus the invitation came to for God's people to get out of her. Russell did not set forth the claim that henceforth, "only Russell and his followers" would be God's spokesmen, although some statements, taken out of context, and placed in the context of present-day JW theology, could lead one to that conclusion. We do not, however, agree with all of Russell's conclusions regarding 1874. We may present more research related to this later, but to see what research we have done to date related to 1878 as related to claims people are making concerning Charles Taze Russell, see: Charles Taze Russell and 1878

Christ is not God

Although this section is directed towards the Jehovah's Witnesses, since we also believe that the Anointed One is not God, the Supreme Being, we will address this briefly. Of itself, the word "Christ", as applied to Jesus, indicates the one anointed by Jehovah, thus the word "Christ" itself indicates that Jesus is not God.* (Psalm 2:2; 45:7; Isaiah 61:1) The default reasoning should be that Jesus is NOT Jehovah who anointed him. The wording given in the "History" concerning what Russell believed concerning Michael the Archangel is worded in such a way as to leave a false impression. See: Russell and Michael the Archangel Michael the Archangel ========= * Our trinitarian neightbors, of course, invent and add to the scriptures the idea that it was one person of God who anointed another person of God, and thus explain away such scriptures by reading this idea into the scriptures. In reality, the scriptures are completely at harmony with each other without reading all of the trinitarian assumption into the scriptures.
Charles Taze Russell never denied the divinity of Christ, but he did show from the Bible how that divinity, as it would be applied by scriptural words to Jesus in the Bible, does not mean that Jesus is Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Russell stayed very close to the Bible on this subject, rather than all of the assumptions and additons to the Bible that the trintiarian dogma calls for.
For those who wish to search the scriptures for what they do say and what they do not say on regarding what other matters mentioned in this subheading, we recommend the following studies:

The Second Coming is Imminent... Again and Again

This heading is highly misleading, especially from the standpoint of Charles Taze Russell, since Russell, in 1876 adopted the belief from Barbour that Christ had returned in 1874, and he held to that belef until he died in 1916. He never spoke of second coming of Christ as being at any other time than 1874.
It is claimed that Russell adopted "the Adventist idea that the world would end any day". If by "Adventist", the "Second Adventists" are meant, actually, Russell rejected the Adventist's view of the end of the world. He rejected the idea that the planet earth and the whole material universe would and that only few of earth's billions would saved. In 1870, Russell rejected the Second Adventist idea of the end of the world, and never, until the day he died, accepted the Second Adventist idea of the end of the world. However, "Adventist" today often means to most people, 7th Day Adventist. Russell rarely used the expression "the end of the world" because, to many, that expression meant the end of the planet earth. He pointed out the in the Greek, it does not speak of the end of the world, but rather of the end of the age.
If by Adventist, the 7th Day Adventists is meant, Russell never adopted their view at all.
It is claimed that Russell "claimed to have calculated the year [of the end of the world] as 1874." Before 1874, it was not Russell, but rather Nelson Barbour and his associates who had "calculated" from the scriptures that Christ would return in 1874, and thus that the "end of world" was to be expected then. Russell rejected all of the dates set forth by any of the Second Adventist until the year 1876 (about two years AFTER 1874), when he accepted Barbour's conclusion that Christ had already returned in 1874 as a spirit being. Sometime before 1874, Russell reported that he and the Bible study group he was associated with had already concluded that Christ was to return in the spriit, not in the flesh, since Jesus had sacrficed his flesh for our sins. He had not, however, set any date for the return of Christ, nor had he accepted any of the dates set forth by the Second Adventists, on up to 1876, two years after 1874. In 1876, he accepted Barbour's conclusion that Christ had already returned -- invisibly -- in 1874.
Although speaking of Jehovah's Witneses
It is asserted that Russell claimed that Jesus did not actually return to earth, but rather "only to the 'upper air'". In reality, Russell never mentioned anything about "upper air", whatever that is supposed to mean. Russell did believe that Christ had returned invisibly to earth in 1874.
Armageddon in 1914 The statement is made that Russell "stated that Armageddon would begin in 1914." From 1904 on to 1914, yes, Russell was indeed expecting Armageddon to begin in 1914. However, the statement, as it stands in the context of the following statement, would imply that Russell was expecting something that he was not expecting. Russell did not believe in the Armageddon that the JWs preach; his idea of Armageddon was that it was a period of time in which the peoples of the nations would chastised (not eternally destroyed) in preparation for the Kingdom. It is stated: "While WWII did begin in 1914, by coincidence, the earth and all Churches were not destroyed." That Armageddon was to begin in 1914 does not necessarily mean the end of the churches, and most definitely Russell not expecting the end of the planet earth at any time whatsoever.
At this point a little history may be relevant:
In 1876, Russell accepted Barbour's conclusion that Armageddon (the time of trouble) had already begun in 1874 and that it would last until 1914 (40 years); shortly after 1880, Russell rejected Barbour's conclusion that Armageddon (as representing the time of trouble) had begun in 1874, but still believed that Armageddon would begin sometime before 1914 (1910 or 1911 was given as suggested dates), and that Armageddon would end, not begin in 1914. In 1904 (tens years BEFORE 1914), Russell realized that the ending of the Gentile Times would not signal the end of Armageddon, but the beginning of Armageddon. Russell held to this latter view on up to his death in 1916. Nevertheless, one should especially note -- for historical accuracy -- that it was NOT UNTIL 1904 that Russell stated that Armageddon was to begin in 1914, not back in the 1870s as implied in the statement given.
************************* More to be added later, God willing.
The following are notes related to some assorted points brought up on the "history", which we hope to get better organized later.
Russell never claimed to be have "authority" over the church or any any of the Bible Students groups; he claimed to be a fellow-servant of Christ. Others claimed such for him, but he refused such authority until the day he died.
For proof see, the archive regarding Russell and "Sole Channel/Authority" http://ctr.rlbible.com/?cat=75
Russell preached against anyone being a "follower" of Russell. See: Russellism http://ctr.rlbible.com/?cat=809
Making the assertion concerning followers of Russell in the context of the JW organization also leaves the impression that Russell formed such an organization. Russell was actually a non-sectarian who believed that members of the true church could be found among all the various denominations that claimed to be Christian. See Russell and Church Organization http://ctr.rlbible.com/?cat=17
Futhermore, it appears to be implying that Russell rejected 1874 as the date Christ returned, and that he was "then" claiming that Christ was to return in 1914; if this is the thought, it is incorrect. In 1876, two years after 1874, Russell accepted that Christ had returned in 1874, and he held to that view until he died in 1916; he never said anything about Christ as returning in 1914.
Additionally, by stating "Armageddon would begin in 1914" in the context of "Jehovah's Witnesses", it leaves the impression with the reader that Russell was expecting what the JWs preach concerning "Armageddon", that is, that virtually everyone earth except the JWs are eternally destroyed. Russell did not believe in this; indeed, this is similar to the "end of the world" expectations held by most of the "Second Adventists" which he rejecte and which preached against. Russell believed that "Armageddon" was a period of time in which the peoples of the nations would be chatised (not eternally destroyed) in preparation for dthe kingdom blessings to follow. Thus, his original acceptance of Barbour's view that Armageddon was to end in 1914 did not mean that he was expecting millions of unbelievers to be eternally destroyed in 1914, but rather that Satan would have been abyssed and the blessings of the peoples could begin. Of course, in 1904, Russell rejected that earlier view and began to realize that time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914, which would then delay the removal of denominationalism until sometime after 1914.
The main thing that Russell was expecting for 1914 was the beginning of the time of trouble, within which to bring about the destruction of Babylon, denominationalism, which Russell often referred to as "the churches", meaning the denominational churches. Russell expected that with the beginning of the time of trouble, it would not be long afterwards that "the church" denominatinal systems would also pass away. Indeed, God is not going to allow such denominational divisions to continue on into the Kingdom Age. Such denominatinal divisions is indeed the product of Satan, not of God. Once Satan is abyssed, the people will certainly have been freed from such denominationalism. Russell died in 1916 rejoicing in seeing that the time of trouble had begun in 1914, although he realized that he had been in error in expecting too much happen as quickly as he expected.
Rutherford took control after Russell died. Russell did not die until October of 1916. Russell himself died still holding to the belief that Christ had returned in 1874, and that the time of trouble had begun in 1914. Russell himself held no expectations regarding 1916 itself; he died with the belief that that their was still a lot of work yet to be done.
However, Rutherford never moved the date 1914 to 1916; if he would have done so, it would have needed to have been done before Russell died in October of 1916, which would not at all fit historical facts. As far as I can determine, the only one(s) who regarding 1916 to have Biblical significance was Paul S. L. Johnson and those who accepted his conclusions. Johnson used a lot of what he thought to be types and antitypal parallels to designate the year 1916, but he did not replace 1914 with 1916. Nor did Johnson point to the year 1916 before 1916 had arrived. He claimed that in 1916 the last member of the 144,000 were sealed, and that since then all who consecrated themselves were of the "youthful worthies", those Russell had referred to as "consecrating between the ages".
Rutherford, however, deceitfully took control after Russell died; he rejected Russell's provisions for the WTS and deceitfully had new by-laws passed by the shareholders who had never read what was in those new by-laws. Effectually, in a few weeks after Russell died, Rutherford had destroyed the WTS as Russell had intended for it to be, and replaced it with a new WTS that he could use to promote his "organization" dogma. Indeed, Russell rarely used the word "organization" related to the WTS, and when he did, it was simply in the sense of corporate organization, not in the sense that Rutherford and his associates began promoting that term as early as December of 1916. Rutherford's methods were very insidious however, and while the majority of those working at Bethel headquarters realized what he was doing and stopped supporting him, it took much longer for those associated with the Bible Students to realize what course Rutherford was taking. Neverthless, by 1928, the Bible Students as whole, represented by the vast majority (well over 75%) had rejected Rutherford's "Jehovah's visible organization" dogma. The Bible Students -- as a whole -- never became "Jehovah's Witnesess"; the Bible Students still exist today, aside from the JW organization.
Rutherford led his followers into accepting another gospel rather than the good news of great joy that will be for all the people that Russell preached, and that the Bible Students still preach today. Rutherford began promoting an alleged gospel that, in effect, is "bad tidings of great woe for most of the people" that they and their children may be eternally destroyed in Armageddon if they do not come to and submit to Rutherford and his organization (which he claimed to be "Jehovah's organization") for salvation. This, indeed, is a "good news" that was almost the very opposite of what Russell preached, and which the Bible Students still preach today.

Tuesday, May 16, 2017

100 "Truths" About Jesus

This post is intended to give links that, in effect, constitute scriptural replies to Matt Slick's 100 (Alleged) Truths About Jesus. Matt Slick's list has been reproduced on many sites and in many forums. We do not disagree with all of Matt Slick's statements, but we do believe that he is in error regarding many things. This work is in progress, and we will adding to it, God willing, as time permits.

1. Did Jesus Claim to be the Supreme Being?

Matt Slick asserts that Jesus claimed to be God, and he gives John 8:24; 8:56-59 (citing Exodus 3:14) and John 10:30-33. In reality, none of the scriptures cited represent Jesus as claiming to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob of Exodus 3:14,15. The thought that Jesus was claiming to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has to be formulated beyond what Jesus stated, and assumptions formed have to added to and read into what Jesus stated.

Regarding John 8:24; 8:56-59 and Exodus 3:14, see the following studies:
John 10:30-33

In John 10:30-33, likewise, we do not find that Jesus is saying that he is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but rather he declares his oneness with the only true Supreme Being who had sent him. (Isaiah 61:1,3; John 17:1,3) He prayed for this same oneness to exist between his followers, himself and the only true God who had sent him. (John 17:1,3,11,20-23) While Jesus pointed out the true reason that they sought to kill him, the lying Jews denied that real reason.

For studies related to John 10:30-33:
The real truth is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Exodus 3:14,15), by means of his holy spirit, reveals through the scriptures that Jesus was sent by Jehovah, speaks for Jehovah as his unipersonal God and Father, represents Jehovah, and it was the unipersonal God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who raised and glorified His Son. Jesus never claimed to be, nor do the scriptures present Jesus as, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whom Jesus represents and speaks for. — Deuteronomy 18:15-22; Matthew 22:32; 23:39; Mark 11:9,10; 12:26; Luke 13:35; 20:37; John 3:2,17,32-35; 4:34; 5:19,30,36,43; 6:57; 7:16,28; 8:26,28,38; 10:25; 12:49,50; 14:10; 15:15; 17:8,26; 20:17; Acts 2:22,34-36; 3:13-26; 5:30; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 8:6; 11:31; Colossians 1:3,15; 2:9-12; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 1:1.

2. Is Jesus Called God (Supreme Being)?

Matt Slick asserts that Jesus is called "God" (evidently with the meaning of "Supreme Being") in the following verses: John 1:1,14; 20:28; Colossians 2:9; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8.

John 1:1

John refers to the prehuman Jesus with the Greek word THEOS in John 1:1. Most translations render the Greek word often transliterated as THEOS as "God", with a capital letter, with the deliberate desire to make it say that Jesus "was" -- before he became flesh -- the "one God" (1 Corinthians 8:6) who is the source of all, the Supreme Being, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. John 1:14 relates how the prehuman Logos "became flesh"; it says nothing about Jesus' being the Supreme Being; it certainly does not say that the Supreme Being added flesh to His being the Supreme Being, as many like to imagine and read into what is stated there.
Since John makes it clear that Jesus, as the Logos, was with the only true Supreme Being before the world of mankind had been made through him (John 17:1,3,5), the default reasoning is not to imagine and assume that THEOS as applied to Jesus means that Jesus "was" the Supreme Being, but, in harmony with the rest of the Scriptures, that John was using a Hebraism to denote that Jesus "was" a mighty being before he became flesh.
John 1:14

Colossians 2:9

Colossians 2:9 in the Greek refers to the plentitude of godship -- mightiness -- that the only true God (John 17:1,3) has given to Jesus in his exalted celestial, spiritual body. -- 1 Corinthians 15:27,39-41; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; 1 Peter 3:18.



Titus 2:13

In keeping with the Paul's general stance of presenting "God" as only one person, that is, the God and Father of Jesus (1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 1:3; 4:6; 1 Timothy 2:5), even many trinitarian translators have rendered this verse in a manner that makes it clear that Paul was not saying that Jesus is "our Great God".

See the RL study: The Great God

Hebrews 1:8

Quoting Psalms 45:6,7 -- If thel "one God" of 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Hebrews 1:1 is referring to his son as ELOHIM/THEOS in Hebrews 1:8, in keeping with the Hebraic usage, it should be understood as not meaning the Supreme Being, since it is the only true Supreme Being, the Lord Jehovah, who anointed and sent Jesus. Psalm 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; John 17:1,3; Acts 10:38.

See the RL study: Why is Jesus Called ELOHIM and THEOS?

The truth is that in the very, very, few instances in which one could see Jesus as being called "God", it does not follow that he is being called the only true Supreme Being. Indeed, in none of the instances often given wherein it is claimed that Jesus is being called "God" does it mean that Jesus is being referred as the only true Supreme Being, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

3. Jesus is the Image of the Only True Supreme Being

Matt Slick states that Jesus is the image of God, and he gives Hebrews 1:3. Jesus is not being identified as the Supreme Being in Hebrews 1:1-3, but rather the one through whom the Supreme Being (God) speaks, and performs his work. The very fact that he is is image of the one person who is "God" in Hebrews 1:1,2 should satisfy one that Jesus is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. This agrees with 1 Corinthians 8:6 and the rest of the New Testament.

4. Jesus Now Lives Forever

Hebrews 7:24

But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable. -- World English.

Matt Slick refers to Hebrews 7:24 as proof that Jesus "abides" forever. We agree that Jesus, now that his God and Father has raised him from the dead (Acts 2:24; 3:13,15,26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:34,37; 17:31; Romans 4:24; 6:10; 8:11; 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 15:15; 2 Corinthians 4:14; 13:4; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 2:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; Hebrews 5:7; 1 Peter 1:21), he will never die again (Romans 6:9; Revelation 1:18), and thus, he lives forever. However, often when some read  Hebrews 7:24, they may imagine and assumed that it means that Jesus was uncreated. This, of course, is not what is stated in Hebrews 7:24, or any where else in the Bible.

5. God's Creation Through Jesus

Matt Slick claims that Jesus is the Creator of "all things", evidently meaning that Jesus is the Supreme Being who is the source of all creation in the universe. He presents John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:15-17 as proof. In reality, both scriptures present Jesus, not as the source of the creation being spoken of, but as the instrument that God uses in the creation. Colossians 1:15 presents "God" as only one person, and Jesus, not as being the only true Supreme Being, but rather as being the "image" of the only true Supreme Being, which harmonizes with Jesus' words of John 17:1,3 and Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 8:6.
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See our studies related to:
Jesus and Creation

6. Jesus is Before All

John1:1-3

Slick refers to John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:17 and claims that Jesus is before all things. The word "things" is not inherent in the Greek of either John 1:3 or Colossians 1:16,17; the Greek word often transliterated as "pas" -- translated as "all" or "all things" in these verses -- rarely means all things in the entire universe, and it is most often limited by context or common evidence. The context of John 1:3 is the beginning of the world of mankind into which the Logos came. (John 1:10) This is the same word spoken of in Romans 5:12 and the same "all creation" spoken of Romans 8:22.
CLICK HERE for relevant studies

Colossians 1:17

 The context of Colossians 1:17 is related to all living creatures, but would exclude the firstborn creature himself. (Colossians 1:15) "Pas", as used here, refers to more than just the world of mankind, but includes all the heavenly spirit creatures.

The truth: Jesus is indeed created before all the living creation that was made through him, giving him the preeminence above all creatures.

7. Is Jesus Eternal?

Matt Slick claims that Jesus is eternal and he gives John 1:1,14; 8:58; and Micah 5:1,2 as proof. We first wish to say that we do believe that Jesus, now that he will never die again, is scripturally eternal. However, this is not what most trinitarians mean when they say "eternal"; they usually give their meaning as something like uncreated, having no beginning or end, outside of time, etc. None of these meanings however, are inherent in the Hebrew and Greek words that are usually translated "everlasting", "eternal", etc.

John 1:1,14

We find nothing in John 1:1,14 that says that Jesus has always been, or that he had eternal past, although that is what many often read into what is stated. It is assumed, and translators often word the matter to make it seem to confirm that assumption, that the "all" of John 1:3 refers to the entire created universe, and it is further often assumed that time is part the "all" that was made through the Logos, and therefore that Jesus was existing before time was created, as many often put it, or that he was existing outside of time. In reality, these thoughts have to imagined and assumed beyond what is written, for no such thoughts are presented anywhere in the Bible, nor is there anything in John 1:1,14 that gives any thought that Jesus was not created before the beginning of the world of mankind. -- John 1:10.
See studies related to John 1:1.

John 8:58

Again, in John 8:58 we do not find anything to the effect that Jesus has always existed, although that is what many like to read into what Jesus said. Jesus was expressing his existence before Abraham was; this does not mean he was claiming to have always existed.


Many translations of Micah 5:2 make it appear that Jesus was "from everlasting" or "from eternity", which is interpreted to mean that Jesus has always existed, and thus was uncreated. However, this is only verse we have found in the entire Bible where anyone translates the Hebrew phrase being used as meaning everlasting or eternity. Additionally, many translations do not have the word "everlasting" or "eternal" in Micah 5:2. Even in Micah 7:14, where we find the same phrase, we do not know of any translation that renders the phrase as from of old, from everlasting. In Deuteronomy 32:7, also, the phrase is rendered in the KJV as "days of old"; the same expression is also used in Isaiah 63:9,11; Amos 9:11 and Malachi 3:4. We do not know of any translation that renders the phrase in those verses as having any meaning of eternity past. Thus, to the only reason to render as meaning forever in Micah 5:2 would be to due to the misconception that Jesus was uncreated. As a result, any usage of the scripture to attempt to prove that Jesus is uncreated becomes circular reasoning, in effect, saying, "Because we believe Jesus is uncreated, we render Micah 5:2 to express Jesus' being uncreated, and because of we have done this, then Micah 5:2 proves that Jesus is uncreated. See also Micah 5:7, wherein we find that Jehovah is presented as being Jesus' God.


8. Jesus Should Be Honored the Same as the Father

John 5:23
“That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father.”

This is a truth; however, we are sure that Matt Slick would like for people to imagine, assume, and read into Jesus' words that the there is something in his statement that would mean that Jesus was claiming to be God, or to be equal to God. However, since Jesus identified his God and Father as being the only true God, and excludes himself from being that only true God by claiming the only true God had sent him, the honor due to Jesus is that of being God's representative, who speaks and acts on behalf of the only true God whom he represents. He is equal to his God only in that he faithfully represents and does the work on behalf of the only true God who sent him; this does not make Jesus into being the "one God" of whom are all. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-22; Matthew 22:32; 23:39; Mark 11:9,10; 12:26; Luke 13:35; 20:37; John 3:2,17,32-35; 4:34; 5:19,30,36,43; 6:57; 7:16,28; 8:26,28,38; 10:25; 12:49,50; 14:10; 15:15; 17:8,26; 20:17; Acts 2:22,34-36; 3:13-26; 5:30; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 8:6; 11:31; Colossians 1:3,15; 2:9-12; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 1:1.

9. Jesus is Prayed To

Matt Slick states that Jesus is prayed to, and he provides the following scriptures: Acts 7:55-60; 1 Corinthians 1:2 with Psalm 116:4; John 14:14. Usually, the thought behind presenting these scriptures is to claim that Jesus is Jehovah, and then to further imagine and assume that Jesus is a person of Jehovah, etc. In reality, there is nothing in the scriptures that should lead one to think that Jesus is Jehovah. We have discussed all these scriptures and more in our study: Jesus as the Object of Prayer

10. Jesus is Worshiped

Matt Slick presents Matthew 2:2,11; 14:33; John 9:35-38; Hebrews 1:6 as proof that Jesus is worshiped. We do not deny that the Greek for worship is applied to Jesus in these verses. The thought is often given that since Jesus is worshiped, then Jesus is must be God, or else those who are spoken of as worshiping Jesus were committing idolatry. The problem is that the Hebrews used the same word for they used for worship also for any homage given to anyone, whether the Almighty or men. There is no indication in any of the scriptures in which Jesus is worshiped, or given homage, that such worship/homage was being given with the thought that Jesus is the Almighty Jehovah. For our examination of related scriptures, see our studies related to: The Worship of Jesus.

********** All below needs to be edited, especially the links.

11. Omnipresent -- Jesus is With Us

The claim is made that Jesus is omnipresent, which is often defined as meaning that he would be infinitely present absolutely everywhere all the time. The following scriptures are given as alleged proof: Matthew 18:20; 28:20. The scriptures given certainly show that the only true God who sent Jesus has given to Jesus the ability to be present in more than one place. (Matthew 28:18; Luke 10:22; John 3:35; 5:22-27; 1 Corinthians 15:27) As the one appointed by God as “Lord” over the church (Acts 2:36; 10:42; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; Hebrews 1:9; 3:2), Jesus would of necessity need to be present in some way with his followers. Such does not mean that Jesus is the "one God" of whom are all. -- 1 Corinthians 8:6.


Jesus' Presence With Us
The claim is made that Jesus is omnipresent, meaning that he is present everywhere in the universe at the same time. This is one of the trinitarian alleged attributes that only can belong to the Supreme Being, and thus, by such reasoning is often then claimed that since Jesus has this attribute, he must be the Supreme Being. The following scriptures are given to support the claim: Matthew 18:20; 28:20. Obviously, there is nothing in either Matthew 18:20 nor in Matthew 28:20 that says that Jesus present everywhere at same time in the whole universe, thus, such a thought has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into what Jesus actually did say. See our studies related to this at: Matthew 18:20; 28:20 – Jesus’ Presence With Us

Our Only Mediator
1 Timothy 2:5

Matt Slick states that Jesus is our only mediator between God and ourselves. This we agree with. The fact that he is mediator between God and sinful mankind however indicates that he is not the "one God" of 1 Timothy 2:5, just as he is not the "one God" of 1 Corinthians 8:6.

See our study:


**********God willing, more to follow...

Who Is Jesus? (Reply to Will Daniels) (moved)

 Moved to:
https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2023/03/whoisjesus.html

Trinitarian Formula in Scripture?

Aside from Matthew 28:19 one has presented several scriptures that evidently are being alleged to contain trinitarian and plural formulas that explain God. I decided to examine these scriptures in this post. I have examined Matthew 28:19 in my study at in my study on the "Baptismal Name"
Matthew 3:16,17
Matthew 3:16 Jesus, when he was baptized, went up directly from the water: and behold, the heavens were opened to him. He saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming on him. Matthew 3:17 Behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
Here "God" the phrase "Spirit of God" is clearly presented as being only one person or individual. There is no "formula" here about "God" being three persons or three individuals. The scripture does present the unipersonal "God", and it also speaks of the "Spirit" of that unipersonal God, and it also speaks about the Son of the unipersonal God, but "God" is presented as being only one person.
See also my study on my website: http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=2651
1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Here "God" is presented as being only one person, in harmony with John 17:1,3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6; there is no formula here that speaks of God as being being more than one person. "The Spirit" obviously refers to the "Spirit" of the unipersonal Lord Jehovah of Isaiah 61:1, and the term Jesus Christ designates Jesus, not as being "God", or a person of "God", but rather it designates Jesus as being the one anointed by the unipersonal Jehovah, the only true God who sent Jesus. -- Isaiah 61:1; John 17:1,3.
See also my study on my website at: http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=1064
2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. Amen.
Again, we find that, in harmony with John 17:1,3 and 1 Corinthians 8:6, "God" is presented as being only person. "The Lord Jesus Christ" designates "Jesus", not as being God or a person of God, but as the one whom the unipersonal God has anointed and made "lord". (Psalm 2:26; 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Ezekiel 34:23,24; John 10:29; 17:1,3; Acts 2:23,36; 4:27; 10:38; Hebrews 1:9) There is definitely no "formula" in 2 Corinthians 13:14 that would offer support to the added-on trinity dogma.
See also my study on my website at: http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=1055
Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended up into heaven, and descended? Who has gathered the wind in his fists? Who has bound the waters in his garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name, if you know? John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten god who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. -- New American Standard, with "God" changed to "god" as applied to the Son of God.
I am not sure at all what might be thought to anything near any trinitarian "formula" in these verses. Proverbs 30:4 speaks of God as only one person and it speaks of the Son of that one person; John 1:18 (as it reads in earlier manuscripts) speaks of the Father as being "God", and it speaks of another "god" who is "begotten". It should be obvious, however, that "god" as applied to the Son of the Father is not being used in the sense of the Supreme Being, but rather as a mighty one who was brought forth into being.
Psalms 110:1-4 A declaration of Jehovah to my Lord: Sit at My right hand, until I place Your enemies as Your footstool.[2] Jehovah shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion to rule in the midst of Your enemies.[3] Your people shall have willingness in the day of Your might; in the majesties of holiness; from the womb of the dawn, to You is the dew of Your youth.[4] Jehovah has sworn and will not repent: You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek. -- Green's Literal.
Definitely no "formula" here that offers any support of the added-on triune God dogma. Jehovah is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. David's Lord is not presented as being Jehovah, or a person of Jehovah. The default reasoning is that David's Lord is not Jehovah.
See also my study on my website: http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=1521
Psalm 2:11-12 Serve Jehovah with fear; yea, rejoice with trembling.[12] Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Oh the blessings of all those who flee to Him for refuge! -- Green's Literal.
Again, we find nothing at all offers any "formula" that would support the added-on trinitarian dogma. The Son is not presented as being a person of Jehovah, but is the Son of Jehovah.
Isaiah 48:16 “Come near me and listen to this: “From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there.” And now the Sovereign [Jehovah] has sent me, endowed with his Spirit. -- New International Version, Holy Name restored by me in brackets.
Isaiah here declares that Jehovah had sent him along with Jehovah's Holy Spirit. If one assumes that Isaiah was speaking there as the Messiah, then it was the Messiah who whom Jehovah sent along with Jehovah's Spirit, which is in agreement with Isaiah 11:2; 61:1; John 17:1,3, etc. There is again definitely nothing here that offers any trinitarian "formula". Jehovah is presented as being one person or individual, and the one whom Jehovah sent is not presented as being a person of Jehovah who sent, nor is Jehovah's spirit presented as being a person of the Jehovah.
See my study on my website; http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=587
Genesis 3:22 And Jehovah God said, Behold! The man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand and also take from the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever, -- Green's Literal.
Again, there is nothing presented here that is some kind of "formula" that offers any proof of a triune God. Green, being a trinitarian, evidently imagined and assumed that "us" refers to the alleged three persons of the added-on trinity dogma, and thus capitalized "Us". Of course, imagining and assuming such does not make it so. The Bible does not directly state who the "us" is, but this does not mean that one needs to imagine, assume, add to and read into what is stated that Jehovah was refer to Himself as being more than one person.
Here are few things one could surmise from what is given in the Bible: With Jehovah at that time were many elohim (mighty ones: Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 5:7), "sons of God" (Job 38:4-7), including the one who is later called Satan (Job 1:6-12), devil and the old serpent (Revelation 12:9), as well as the firstborn creature who later became Jesus. (Colossians 1:15) . Jehovah, of course, had intuitive knowledge of good and bad; when Satan sinned through ambition, he certainly then had some knowledge not only of good, but also of bad. The other spirit "sons of God" had such knowledge by Satan's example.
See also my study on my website: http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=646
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. - KJV.
Definitely no trinitarian formula at all presented in this verse.
If I say to my son, "Let us build our house according to our plans," no one would think that I am saying that my son is a person of myself, or that my son and I are two persons of one sentient being (as is claimed by the added-on trinitarian dogma: three persons all of whom are wholly one omniscient being).
Revelation 5:12-13 saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who has been killed to receive the power, riches, wisdom, might, honor, glory, and blessing!" [13] I heard every created thing which is in heaven, on the earth, under the earth, on the sea, and everything in them, saying, "To him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion, forever and ever. Amen." -- World English.
Again, we do not find any formula that would give one reason to add the triune God dogma to the Bible. "Him who sits on the throne" refers to the only true Supreme Being, and "the Lamb" refers to Jesus whom the only true Suprme Being sent into the world as the Lamb of God. The Lamb proved himself obedient to death and thus is recognized as worthy of being exalted by the only true Supreme to with power, so that at the name of Jesus all should bow to the glory of the only true God. .– Acts 2:33,36; 5:31; Philippians 2:8-10; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; 1 Corinthians 15:27; Hebrews 1:4; 1 Peter 3:22.
Throughout the Bible, we find that Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is ALWAYS presented as being one person or individual; Jehovah is not once presented as being more than one person or individual. In the Bible, we find that Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is the only true Supreme Being who sent Jesus; Jesus speaks the words given to him from the only true Supreme Being. — Exodus 3:13,14; Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Isaiah 61:1; John 3:34; 5:19; 6:29; 7:16,28; 8:26,28,42; 10:36; 12:44-50; 14:10,24; 17:1,3,8; Acts 3:13-26; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Galatians 4:4; Hebrews 1:1,2; 1 John 4:9,10.
The default reasoning is that Jesus is NOT Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who sanctified and sent His son into the world of mankind. — Isaiah 61:1; John 3:17; 5:36,37; 6:38,57; 8:42; 10:36; 17:1,3; Romans 8:3; Galatians 4:4; 1 John 4:9-14.
As with all scriptures presented to that are supposed to prove or give support to the added-on trinity dogma, we find that one has to imagine the triune God concept beyond what is written, and then based on forumulated assumptions beyond what is written, one has to add such assumptions to the scriptures, and one has to read such assumptions into what is actually written, all of which is against the default reasoning.