One has given us the material that is presented in gotquestions.org related to some statements we made concerning the ransom sacrifice of the man, Christ Jesus. The person presented to me a copy and paste of what is presented at
Since our response has become rather long, we are presenting our responses here:
The correct answer is that no, Jesus, not being "God" (Supreme Being), did not die on the cross. Such would not have provided the redemption price that was needed. That which was required to pay the price of the condemnation in Adam was that of a sinless human being, nothing more, nothing less.
****Below needs editing; links may not work.
It is claimed that the answer depends on how one understands the meaning of the word "die".
The word "die" in the Bible most often signifies the opposite of what is written in Genesis 2:7, the cessation of being alive, thus no longer sentient. This is confirmed in Genesis 3:19; Job 14:10-15; 33:4; 34:14,15; Psalms 6:5; 104:29,30; 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5,10; 12:7; Isaiah 38:18; James 2:26.
For more related to this, see our study:
The Spirit That Returns to God
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=12
In the Bible, to die most often means that one becomes no longer a living soul, but a dead soul, a soul that no longer has the spirit, the power or energy, from God that makes a person alive, and thus without that power the soul no longer has sentiency. -- Ezekiel 18:4,20; See Leviticus 21:11; Numbers 6:6; 9:7 (most translations do not render the Hebrew word for "soul" as "soul" in these verses, but instead substitute other words, thus hiding the fact that the Bible is speaking of souls.)
The Bible speaks of dead souls and that the soul dies (Numbers 6:6; 9:13; Mark 14:34; and many other scriptures.); the soul can be cut off (Exodus 31:14; Leviticus 7:21; 19:8; 22:3; Acts 3:23; etc.); the soul can be destroyed (Leviticus 23:30; Matthew 10:28); but not once does the Bible actually say the soul is immortal or that it continues to have sentiency while it is dead, although Jesus may have made use of, while not condoning, the Hellenistic Jewish adaptation of that philosophy. If our hope is built on this philosophy, then Jesus died for nothing.
For more related to this, see my studies:
A Living Soul
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=390
Neshamah
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=16
God sentenced Adam to return to what he had been before his birth. (Genesis 3:19; Ecclesiastes 12:7) This is the condemnation that was upon Adam, and thus to pay the wages of sin, Jesus had to undergo that same condemnation of death. That condemnation upon Adam would have been eternal had Jesus not sacrificed himself to pay the wages upon Adam and all his offspring. -- Romans 5:12-19; 6:23; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 2:5,6.
Note that Ecclesiastes 12:7 does not say that only the spirit of the good, or the justified, return to God. It simply describes what happens when any man, whether he has been good or bad, justified or unjustified, when they die. As Solomon wrote wrote of man under this present sun of vanity and crookedness (Ecclesiastes 1:13-15): "It is the same for all. There is one fate for the righteous [one made straight -- justified -- through faith] and for the wicked; for the good, for the clean and for the unclean; for the man who offers a sacrifice and for the one who does not sacrifice. As the good man is, so is the sinner; as the swearer is, so is the one who is afraid to swear. This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that there is one fate for all men. Furthermore, the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives. Afterwards they go to the dead." -- Ecclesiastes 9:2,3, New American Standard.
For more related to Ecclesiastes 12:7, see my studies:
Hope of Life After Death Part 13
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=70
The Spirit That Returns to God
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=12
All mankind, both good and bad, crooked and reckoned justified, meet the same destiny at death. And Solomon goes on to describe that destiny:
For the living know that they will die, but the dead don't know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. -- Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Solomon -- in Ecclesiastes -- did not write of the resurrection under the sun of righteousness, which takes place in the age to come. (Isaiah 65:17,22; Malachi 4:2; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; John 5:28,29; 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24; 12:47,48; Acts 24:15; Hebrews 6:5; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1-5); Solomon is speaking of the present age under the sun of vanity and crookedness, this age in which Satan is god and still blinding the minds of the people. (2 Corinthians 4:4; Galatians 1:4; Revelation 12:9) It is only under the present sun of vanity that all men die, having been condemned to death in Adam, as Paul wrote. (Romans 5:12-19; 8:20-22; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22) We are still living under the sun of corruption, crookedness and vanity. We die, and eventually all who knew us will die, and with their death, no one will be able to say 'I remember when so and so did this, or said that, etc.'
Nevertheless, Solomon continues to later give more regarding the destiny of both good and bad:
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, where you are going. -- Ecclesiastes 9:10.
It is the destiny of all, both good and bad, to go into the oblivious condition that is called "Sheol" (rendered as "hades" in the New Testament). This is the reversal of Genesis 2:7, as we read in Ecclesiastes 12:7. Thus, it was that Jesus had to go into this same oblivious condition to pay the wages of sin. David wrote of the Messiah as saying to his God: "For you will not leave my soul in Sheol, Neither will you allow your holy one to see corruption." (Psalm 16:10) This agrees with Hebrews 5:7 as both scriptures show that Jesus had to be saved, delivered, from death. Peter spoke of this in Acts 2:14-36. Please note that Peter did not say that either David or Jesus was alive in Sheol/Hades; of David, Peter stated: "Brothers, I may tell you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day." David's flesh had surely decayed at that time, and thus David was still in the condition described at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 to that very day, and David is still that condition. It was foretold, however that Jesus' soul would not be left in Sheol, and that his body of flesh would not see decay. This, Peter says, is speaking of Jesus' resurrection, for God did save him out death and sheol, by raising him from death, not in the flesh, but in the spirit. (2 Peter 3:18) His body, however, did not see decay because it was to be offered in sacrifice to God for our sins. -- Luke 22:19; Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 9:14; 10:10; 1 Peter 2:24.
For more related to this, see my studies:
Under the Sun
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=138
Jesus' Soul in Sheol
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=548
The claim is made that death is "separation".
I can say that the scriptures reveal that to die does indeed separate God's spirit (that keeps one alive) from the body, producing a dead soul, a soul that is no longer sentient. (James 2:26; Ezekiel 18:4,20; Leviticus 21:11; Numbers 6:6; 9:7 --most translations do not render the Hebrew word for "soul" as "soul" in these verses, but instead substitute other words.) The reason being that the spirit in such a case is the power or life force from God that keeps the body alive, making the person a living soul, a living sentient being. (Genesis 2:7) Once the spirit is removed, the body is dead, resulting in the opposite of a living soul, that is, a dead soul.
Nothing in the Bible says that death is "separation", at least not in the sense that dualists use that expression describe their dualistic philsophy.
The claimed is made that physical death is when the soul-spirit separates from the physical body.
The above appears to be reflecting what is often called the dualistic philosophy of the nature of man. The Bible never presents such a philosophy as being truth. Historically, the philosophy was adopted from heathen religions, and has been added to, and read into various scriptures.
We do find in the Bible that when the spirit is separated from the body, that the soul -- the person -- is no longer living. The condemnation upon Adam was that he was to return to what he was before he was living (Genesis 3:19; Ecclesiastes 12:7); it was not that only his body would die while his soul continued to live as dualists claim. Although many read such a philosophy into many scriptures, in reality that philosophy is no where to be found in the Bible. It appears that the Jews adopted that philosophy from the Greeks, and Christians adopted it from the Hellenized Jewish philosophy.
I am wondering, however, if the separation of the alleged "soul-spirit" from the body as described in the dualistic philosophy would actually be a condemnation upon Adam, which condemnation Jesus paid. (Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22) If the death that Jesus died for our sins was that his spirit-soul separated from his body and continued to live while his body died, it would mean that the condemnation upon Adam was that he would not really die, because it would mean that the death Adam died as a consequence of his disobedience was only pertaining to his body (Genesis 2:16,17; 5:5), and he himself did not actually die, but continued to live on after death. Applying Ecclesiastes 12:7 according to that tradition, it would mean that Adam "returned" to God when died? How would that be a condemnation? Since it says that the spirit returns to God, and if one assumes that "spirit" is speaking of conscious existence while the body is dead, it also raises the question: Did Adam have conscious existence with God before he became "a living soul" on the earth?
Those who have adopted the heathen duality philosophy usually also have adopted and adapted the heathen philosophy concerning hades, that it has different realms or compartments, in which it is claimed the good receive rewards of bliss in sheol/hades and the wicked received rewards of suffering in sheol/hades. Of course, none of this is in the Bible, except in Jesus' parody of the Jewish adaptation of that heathen philosophy as recorded in Luke 16:19-31, which was a parable illustrating that "The law and the prophets were until John." (Luke 16:16) Jesus did not present that parody for the purpose of condoning the Jewish adaptation of heathen philosophy, nor does his parody actually follow the description of hades as given by Josephus. Jesus was simply adapting their belief to provide an illustration of what he had been speaking of, that the Law and the Prophets were until John.
For more related to the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, see:
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=42
However, for my present point, if one applies the heathen view of hades to Adam's condemnation, it would not simply be death, but one would have further imagine and assume that the condemnation upon Adam was to a realm of hades that the Jews claimed was a place of suffering, or else that he went to a place of bliss in sheol/hades at death. However, no where does the Bible say that Adam's disobedience brought such a condemnation -- all it says is that dying, he would die, and that he died, and thus death was the condemnation. He began the dying process on the day he ate; before that he was not in a dying condition. -- Genesis 2:17; 5:5; Romans 5:12-19.
Nevertheless it is claimed that God died because Jesus was God in human form.
I have no scriptural reason to imagine the above and add the above to what the Bible says. The Bible never says that the Supreme Being was in human form and thus died. His qualities, his works, and his words were certainly seen in Jesus, but this does not mean that Jesus was God.
Indeed, as stated, it is self-contradictory, for the Supreme Being to be in human form would mean that the Supreme Being would have a glory lower than the angels. (Psalm 8:4,5) Of course, trinitarians and some others will claim that while it was God in human form, it was only the human being Jesus that was made lower than the angels, while the God being Jesus was not made lower than the angels. And thus they keep coming up with more and more assumptions to read into the scriptures. However, in doing so, they are in effect saying that God in human form did not die, in contradiction to the thought presented that God died because Jesus was God in human form.
It is claimed that Jesus’ soul-spirit separated from His body, and John 19:30 is given to support that claim.
John 19:30 -
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished." He bowed his head, and gave up his spirit." -- World English.
We find nothing in this scripture about Jesus' soul being separated from the body, but we do read that Jesus gave up his spirit, the spirit -- the power of life -- from God which kept him alive. -- John 6:57.
This is in harmony with Ecclesiastes 12:7, which depicts death as the opposite of Genesis 2:7.
To pay the price for sin, Jesus had to undergo the opposite of what is stated in Genesis 2:7; by this means he accomplished the reversal of the condemnation in Adam. The condemnation upon Adam would have been eternal had not Jesus paid the price to bring mankind out of that condemnation. (Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 2:5,6) But to pay the price for sin would mean that the man Christ Jesus be physically dead for eternity. Jesus thus eternally sacrificed his body of flesh with its blood for our sins. (Luke 22:19; Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 2:24) Likewise, we read that Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but he was not raised in the flesh, but rather he was raised in the spirit. (1 Peter 3:18)
For more details, related to this, see my studies:
Jesus Died a Human Being - Raised a Spirit Being
http://reslight.net/?p=5
Is Jesus Still a Little Lower Than the Angels?
|http://reslight.net/?p=195
God does not die in any way, shape or form. No scripture ever presents any such idea. This has to all be thought up beyond what is written. -- 1 Corinthians 4:6.
Nevertheless, the soul of Jesus, who is not God (Supreme Being), was dead in sheol/hades without any sentiency. His soul did not remain in hades, but God raised him out of hades, not as a human being, but with the sentiency of a celestial, heavenly, spiritual bodily glory. -- 1 Corinthians 15:39-41,45,47,48; 1 Peter 3:18.
No scripture, however, says that in order for mankind to be saved, that God had to offer Himself in sacrifice to Himself to pay wages of sin for mankind, as I have seen many trinitarians and oneness people claim. That is man's idea, not God's.
It is claimed that the "second person" of the trinity left the body he temporarily inhabited on earth, but that is "divine nature" did not die, nor could it.
Again, I have no scriptural reason to imagine all of the above. The Bible no where, not even once, presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being more than one person. Throughout the Bible, Jesus is distinguished from being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. We find nothing at all about God being three persons, etc. All of this has to be imagined beyond what is written.
Nevertheless, Jesus, the Son of God, needed to be saved from death. -- Hebrews 5:7.
It is claimed that Jesus is truly God and truly man.
"God" with a capital "G" in English usually means the Supreme Being. Nevertheless, the original Hebrew and Greek does not have capitalization as we have it in English. Any capitalization is the work of later copyists and translators, and has often applied according to doctrinal bias.
I have no scriptural reason to imagine and assume that Jesus is the Supreme Being at all. No scripture presents Jesus as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is always presented as being the God and Father of Jesus.
Nonetheless, the Hebraic usage of the words for "God/god" do not exactly match the English usage. The only scripture that I can say for certainty that uses the Greek word often transliterated as THEOS of Jesus is John 1:1. Many cite a few -- not very many -- other usages of forms of the Hebrew word often transliterated as EL (Strong's Hebrew #s 410, 430, etc.) and the Greek word transliterated as THEOS in which they believe these words are applied to Jesus, but all of those scriptures are disputed as actually applying these words to Jesus. I believe that there is a possibility that in some of these scriptures these words MAY BE applied to Jesus, but I cannot say so with any definiteness. The scriptures most often presented are Psalm 45:5; Isaiah 9:6; Matthew 1:23; John 20:28; 2 Peter 1:1; Philippians 2:5; 1 Timothy 3:16; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8. There are not very many scriptures that one can present wherein it may be claimed that these words are applied to Jesus. Nevertheless, if the Hebrew or Greek words for "God/god" are being applied to Jesus in these other scriptures the same principle would still apply as I am about to present.
The scriptures, I believe, show that Jesus, before he became flesh, was with the only true God, the only true Supreme Being. (John 17:1,3,5) His being with God is emphasized by stating it twice in John 1:1,2. I believe John did this to show that the Greek word often transliterated as THEOS as applied to Jesus does not mean "Supreme Being" -- He who is the source of all (1 Corinthians 8:6), but rather that he was using that word in the more common sense of might, power, strength. While Jesus was with the only true Supreme Being, he was [past tense] mighty, being a mighty spirit son of God, in his being. Thus the Greek word transliterated as THEOS in John 1:1, as applied to the Logos, should not be understood as meaning the Supreme Being, but the Hebraic sense of might, strength, power.
The problem is that, due to our traditional concept of "God/god", the word "God/god" as we are accustomed to using it does not exactly fit the ancient Hebraic usage. Thus, in many instances, translators end up rendering the word "God/god", not as "God" or "god", but with some form of the basic Hebraic meaning of "God/god", that is, might, strength, power, etc. This, in effect, hides from the English reader that the word for "God/god" is being used in the Hebrew. In other words, the Hebraic usage of the word for "God/god" does not always mean Supreme Being or a false god, and thus is legitimately used of men and angels, without meaning either Supreme Being or false god.
To demonstrate what this, we can use the KJV to show this usage for the word "god" by the way it renders the Hebrew word for "God/god" (Strong's #410, #430) in different ways: The word for God/god is rendered as "mighty" in the following verses: Genesis 23:6; Exodus 9:28; Psalms 50:1; 82:1; 89:6; Ezekiel 31:11. The KJV renders the word God/god as "power" in the following verses: Genesis 31:29; Proverbs 3:27; Micah 2:1. The KJV renders the word for God/god as "might" in Deuteronomy 28:32. The KJV renders it as "strong" in Ezekiel 32:21.
One can prove the above by examining a Hebrew Lexicon (such as Englishman's) under Strong's numbers 410 and 430, or one can look up in Strong's Concordance the individual words "mighty", "power", etc, as I listed above and see the places where it lists Strong's #410 or #430. This is only a sampling of the Hebraic usage of forms of this word as shown in the Bible; nevertheless, it demonstrates that the Hebrew meaning for God/god can be used of men, without meaning that they are the Supreme Being or that they are false gods. As meaning the Supreme Being, it only applies to the God and Father of Jesus, since only the God of Jesus is the source of all might. (1 Corinthians 8:6) Therefore, what is presented above shows that the Hebrew word for God/god does not exactly correspond to the English usage of the word God/god, else the KJV could have rendered Genesis 31:29 as "It is in the god of my hand." As it is, however, English, and most other Romantic languages, do not make use of the word "god" in this manner.
See my study:
The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for "God"
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=19
Nonetheless, due to the common modern concept of the word "God/god," whenever it is applied to others than the Supreme Being or of false gods, it would be best to render it as the KJV (and all other translations I have examined in varying places) with some form of might, power, etc. Doing so in John 1:1 would give us the English, "the Word was mighty", or the Word was a mighty one", not the Word was God (as meaning, "Supreme Being"). The ONLY reason for not doing so with THEOS as applied to the Logos in John 1:1 is due to man's preconceived notion that Jesus is the Supreme Being, and the further assumption that Jesus is one of three persons of the Supreme Being. This being so, any usage of John 1:1 as an alleged proof of a triune God (which is no where ever once presented in the entire Bible) is circular, that is, 'because we believe that Jesus is the Supreme Being, we believe that THEOS applied to the Logos in John 1:1 means that he is the Supreme Being, thus because of what we believe, John 1:1 is proof that Jesus is the Supreme Being.'
Of course, now that Jesus is no longer the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), the only true Supreme Being has exalted him bodily with power even greater, the plenitude of diety -- mightiness (Colossians 2:9,10), necessary for him to perform the work God has given him to do.
For some of my studies related to John 1:1, see:
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?page_id=4871
Another reason I don't believe that Jesus is God, or a person of God, is that those who believe this most often add to this that Jesus is two different natures, one being the Supreme Being and another being a human being. If one adds to the Bible the alleged "dual natures" (or as some claim "hypostatic union") of Jesus, claiming that he is both man and God, this dogma diminishes and would make light of the work Jesus accomplished as a human, and would, rather than condemn sin in the flesh, actually justify sin the flesh, proving that for a sinless man to obey God, that man would have to be God. -- Romans 8:3.
Furthermore, if Jesus is still a man as many claim, technically, since man is defined as being a little lower than angels (Psalm 8:4,5), Jesus, as a man (Hebrews 2:9), would be still today be a littler lower than the angels, if the trinitarian claims are true, although trinitarians claim that he is still a man, but deny that as a man that he is lower than than the angels.
For more related to this, see my study:
http://reslight.net/?p=195
But probably the most important reason for not accepting such dogma is that, if Jesus is still a human being, then there has been no sacrifice for sin; no one has been redeemed, and all are still under the condemnation of death in Adam. This was the purpose of Jesus' coming the flesh, that is, to sacrifice that body of flesh -- with its blood -- for the world. Jesus sacrificed his human flesh (John 6:51), his human blood (Matthew 26:28) representing his human soul (Deuteronomy 12:23 -- consisting of body of dust and the spirit of life from God -- Genesis 2:7), his human body (Hebrews 10:10), once for all time for sin. As a human being, he is indeed dead forever, else there has been no sacrifice, there has been no price paid for sin. (1 Timothy 2:5,6) The whole basis of the ransom sacrifice as given in the Bible depends on this redemption, and is central two why is important to believe that Jesus did come in the flesh. -- Romans 5:1-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 John 4:2,3,9,14,15; 2 John 1:7.
For more related to this, see my studies:
http://reslight.net/?p=5
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=2399
It is claimed that his physical body did die; His heart stopped beating, and “he gave up his spirit” (Matthew 27:50).
As stated, I have no disagreement with this. However, in the context of the statement it is apparent that the word "spirit" is being misunderstood as it is used in Matthew 27:50. Jesus, when he died, did indeed give up his spirit; this is the spirit, the power, from his God that kept him alive. That spirit is not Jesus' soul. Jesus said of his soul a little before his death: "My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death." (Matthew 26:38) And it was prophesied: "he poured his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53:12) The scriptures show that his soul was dead in the oblivious condition of sheol/hades. -- Ecclesiastes 9:10; Psalms 16:10; Acts 2:14-36.
For more related to this, see my study:
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=12
And as we die, our dead soul will be in the oblivious condition of sheol/hades. -- Ecclesiastes 9:10.
All who are dead in sheol/hades will be brought out that oblivious condition. -- John 5:28,29; Revelation 20:14.
It is stated that as Jesus died physically, he remained alive spiritually.
Actually, Jesus was did not possess the spiritual body until he was raised in the spirit. -- 1 Corinthians 15:39-49; 1 Peter 3:18.
For more related to this, see my study:
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=1
Luke 23:43 is cited as proof that Jesus and the "thief" went to paradise, not physically, but in spirit.
Again, Jesus was a spirit being until he was raised in the spirit. The idea that Jesus and their went to paradise, not physically, but in spirit, has to be imagined and assumed beyond what is written.
What does the Bible itself actually say about paradise? Except for being used of various specific gardens (Deuteronomy 11:10; 1 Kings 21:2; etc.), the word paradise is used in the Bible to refer to: (a) the garden of Eden, “the garden of God” (Genesis 2:8-15; Ezekiel 28:13), i.e., the perfect abode of Adam and Eve while sinless; (b) the symbolic paradise of God from which the overcomers of this age are symbolically given fruit from the tree of life (Revelation 2:7 — compare Ezekiel 28:13; 31:8,9); (c) the earth after the kingdom is set up on it, as and after its curse of sin and death is increasingly removed (Revelation 22:1-3, compare Genesis 2:9, 10; 1 Corinthians 15:26), and it becomes increasingly (Daniel 2:35) “like the garden of Eden” (Ezekiel 36:35), i.e., paradise lost becomes paradise regained, which new earth was seen in vision and prophecy together with the third, the new heaven-the spiritual control of Christ (2 Corinthians 12:1-4; 2 Peter 3:6, 7, 12, 13; Revelation 21:1-3)-that will eventually supplant the spiritual control of Satan, “the god of this age.” — 2 Corinthians 4:4; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 2:2.
“Paradise”, in the Bible never refers to heaven, and most definitely, “paradise” — in the Bible — is never depicted as being a realm of sheol/hades. In this regard, many claim to have knowledge beyond what is written so as to misuse several scriptures to make it appear that paradise was a compartment or realm of sheol, and Jesus took paradise from sheol to heaven. Certainly, if "paradise" was a realm of sheol, David would have expected to go to paradise when he died, but he stated: "In death there is no remembrance of thee: In Sheol who shall give thee thanks?" (Psalm 6:5, ASV) The reality is that David had no expectation of going to paradise in sheol when he died, and he had no concept that "paradise" was a realm of sheol. The Bible no where presents such an idea, although, as I said, many read that thought into several scriptures. Likewise, Hezekiah spoke of his going to sheol, and states to Jehovah: "Sheol cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: They that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth." (Isaiah 38:18, ASV) Obviously, Hezekiah did not expect that he would be in paradise when he died.
So what did Jesus mean by his words recorded in Luke 23:43? Was Jesus telling the criminal that they both would be together in paradise on that very day? We should note that the criminal had asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into his kingdom. More correctly rendered, Jesus replied: "“Verily [Amen, or Assuredly], I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise.” (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible) In everyday English of today, we might say, "What I tell today is true,...." There are a large number of passages in the Septuagint translation in which the Greek construction corresponds to that of Luke 23:43: “I say unto you this day” corresponds to the emphatic, “I testify unto you this day”, e.g. Deuteronomy 6:6; 7:11; 8:1; 10:13; 11:8,13,28..”
For more related to this, see my studies:
Thief in Paradise
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=30
The Repentant Criminal in Paradise
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=94
Jesus did die physically (John 19:34); the question is, is that the death that he died for our sins? Indeed, this was the death that Jesus died for our sins (Romans 5:6,12-13; 1 Corinthians 15:3,15,16), and thus, that was the condemnation that was placed upon Adam. There is nothing at all in the Bible that saya that Jesus had to be the Supreme Being in order to die for our sins, or that the death that he died to pay the wages of sin was that only his body would die, while his soul or spirit stayed alive.
We are next presented with "the matter of spiritual death." I do agree that Jesus did indeed experience the result of sin, although he was not a sinner, that is, God did forsake him momentarily, that thus he be fully as a sinner before he died for our sins. (Mark 15:54) Thus, Jesus was fully replacing the human race as a sinner. There is no need, however, to imagine and assume that alleged dual natures of of Jesus into this, so as to claim that it was not the Supreme Being Jesus who experienced this, but rather the human being Jesus. Of course, Jesus was indeed at the time a human being -- a little lower than the angels -- nothing more, nothing less.
While sin certainly separates one from God, that separation itself is definitely not the death penalty that was placed upon Adam. I don't know of any scripture that says that this separation from God is spiritual death. Scripturally, one could speak of one being spiritually dead because God reckons things that are as though they were, from God's standpoint all the offspring of Adam are considered as dead -- children of wrath, sons of disobedience -- dead in their sins (Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 2:13), and those who have become justified are considered, reckoned, imputed, counted as alive. (Genesis 15:6; Luke 20:38; Romans 3:24-28; 4:1-25; 6:11,13; 8:10; 2 Corinthians 5:18,19; Galatians 3:5; Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13; James 2:23) The idea of "spiritual death" as could be applied to this reckoning of death, however, does not do away with the final result of sin, that is, the opposite of life.
For more related to this, see my studies:
Was Adam Sentenced to Spriitual Death?
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=427
Wages of Sin - Spiritual Death?
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=355
Spiritually Dead in Sin
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=353
It is claimed that the question for all people to ask is: “what will happen to my soul/spirit when it leaves my physical body?” It is further claimed that when we die, out spirits leave out body and will either spend eternity with Jesus in heaven, or we will go to hell to spend eternity in "outer darkness" where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 8:12 is cited.
The Bible does not speak of the soul as being sentient when the body dies; it does speak of the soul as being dead, a soul that no longer is iving, and that longer has sentiency. The word "spirit" is used with many different shades of meaning in the Bible. The Bible tells us that at death the "spirit" returns to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7); this is a reversal of Genesis 2:7. The spirit of all, even that of the most horrible sinner, returns to God (now through Jesus) who gave it. Without that spirit the person no longer has any life at all; he is dead.
Matthew 8:12 says nothing at all about anyone being alive while dead, or a spirit or soul that continues to live after the death of the body. It does not speaking hades/sheol at all. Nor is there any menntion of Gehenna. Indeed, Matthew 8:12 is not speaking of anyone weeping and gnashing their teeth while dead, but it speaks of the Jews' being thrown into outer darkness due to their rejection of Messiah. They remain in this outer darkness until they proclaim of Jesus: "Blessed is he who come in the name of Jehovah." -- Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Psalms 118:26; Matthew 23:2=38,39.
http://life-rlbible.com/?p=506
The spirit of all, both good and bad, return to God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7) Without that spirit there is nothing living that goes anywhere. However, due to Jesus' sacrifice, God will return that spirit in resurrection. The ONLY hope of future life given in the Bible is the resurrection. If there is no resurrection, there is no future life at all, and all who are fallen asleep in Christ have perished, and will not be alive anywhere. -- 1 Corinthians 15:12-19.
It is claimed that his death provided us spiritual life, both here and in heaven. The following is quoted: “And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.” -- Romans 8:11.
Jesus' sacrifice only purchases that which is lost. Adam did not lose life in heaven; he lost life on earth. Jesus sacrifice his human life to bring back life to humanity, with the glory that is a little lower than the angels.
See my studies:
The Restoration of All Things
The Ransom For All
With What Kind of Body Will We Be Raised?
One who puts his faith in Christ is reckoned, counted, imputed, as being justified and thus as alive in this age. (Genesis 15:6; Luke 20:38; Romans 3:24-28; 4:1-25; 6:11,13; 8:10; 2 Corinthians 5:18,19; Galatians 3:5; Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13; James 2:23) Nevertheless, it is not until the age to come, in the resurrection "last day", that the full realization of that life is obtained. -- Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; John 5:28,29; 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24; 12:47,48; Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 1:20-22; 2 Corinthians 5:4,5; Ephesians 1:12-14; Hebrews 6:5.
